Original Sopwith Camel to NZ?

[aeromuzz]

I literally stumbled on an article on the web saying that the Aerospace Education Center in Little Rock Arkansas had closed but what sparked my interest was when it continued on to say, "The society has sold a Sopwith Camel and a Curtiss Jenny to help pay down the bills of the center that closed Jan. 1. The Jenny is being sent to Argentina for restoration and will end up in a museum in Virginia while the Sopwith Camel is headed to a museum in New Zealand." ;D ;D ;D

There's a couple of obvious candidates who could be the buyers but does anyone know anything definite about this?

For the record, it is Sopwith F.1 Camel marked "E1537".

[Peter Lewis]

Interesting.

I don't know how original this aircraft is. Some years ago I had a list of all known pre-1919 aircraft, but I don't have that here with me right now.

According to the internet records E1537 is ex-RFC N6254 .

Camel E1537 were the markings of Lt Field Kindley of 148 Sq., presumably an American serving with the RFC.

[Brett]

Very interesting.

From the FAA website for this aircraft:

Registered Owner
Name SALE REPORTED
Street PO BOX 15208
MIRAMAR
City WELLINGTON
Zip Code 6022
Country NEW ZEALAND

This is not the TVAL PO Box number. It is, however, the PO Box number for Weta Digital Limited.

[Gary.]

Maybe Peter Jackson has a new toy for his collection, I'm sure i read somewhere that he had a soft spot for the Sopwith Camel.......

[Peter Lewis]

Dug up the WW1 survivors list - fairly accurate as at mid-2010:

Sopwith Camel

F1:
B5747 Brussels Air Museum
F6314 RAFM Hendon
B6291 Al Letcher, Mojave, California (now sold?)
B7280 Polish Aviation Museum, Krakow (incomplete)
“N6254” D&R Holbert, Aerospace, Little Rock, Arkansas

2F1:
N6812 IWM Lambeth
N8156 Canadian Aviation Museum, Rockcliffe

So it would appear that the Arkansas Camel is an original, or largely so.

[ErrolC]

A bit of a Google, and it looks like there is some promise.

www.aerovintage.com/tman_photo3.htm

www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/52266-sopwith-camel-n6254-arkansas-status.html

[delticman]

From "British Military Serials 1911-1979"
N6160-6209 50 Sopwith Pup (LeRhone engine)
N6210-6285 76 SOAD S7 (only N6210 built)
N6290-6309 20 Sopwth Tri-Plane (final production).

Any ideas in what it really is?

[Brett]

Flyernzl,
I see you are also posting on Flypast asking for info about this Camel.

The earliest comment I have found is that it was purchased by Paul Tallman in 1951 from the Jarrett War Museum collection. Jarrett was a 'packrat' type of guy who accumulated a huge collection of militaria. He went on to work at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds running the Foreign Materiel Board. This was a department of the US Army that basically salvaged everything they could from battlefields etc and sent it back to Aberdeen for testing and assessment.

Tallman got it flying in 1955, and it was used by Tallmantz Aviation in a number of movies (supposedly including The Blue Max). At times it was marked up as "B7270" & "A-1171". It flew until 1964. In 1966 it was acquired by Rosen-Novak (an investment group) and was part of the auction of the Tallmanz collection in 1968. At that auction it was sold (for $40,000) to J. Williams Middendorf II (an ex-Navy investment banker/diplomat), and supposedly went to NASM.

Things are then a bit fuzzy but it was displayed at USMC Museum Quantico. It was sold from there to fund the restoration of remaining exhibits. It was acquired by Richard N Holbert (in 1982 ?) who is one of the guys behind the Aerospace Education Centre in Little Rock, AR. They are the ones who have just sold it.

As for the current markings, Arkansas-born Captain Field E. Kindley was America's fourth leading Ace of World War I with twelve victories. He was the "A" Flight Commander of the 148th Aero Squadron of the British Royal Flying Corps-the 148th Americans. On February 1, 1920, while leading a flight of four aircraft in training maneuvers, he lost his life when a control cable broke and his aircraft crashed. He was inducted into the Arkansas Aviation Hall of Fame on November 19, 1982.

The Camel is an original, multi-restored aircraft which is evidently in need of yet another restoration. None of it's registrations shed any light on it's original identity. But it is an genuine Camel!


Cheers,

Brett

[Peter Lewis]

Thanks for those details Brett.

The mystery part of the story will be 1918 - 1950.

We shall see what comes up.

[Brett]

The comment about appearing in "The Blue Max" seems to be wrong. Tallmantz were involved, but this aircraft probably was not.

Jarrett purchased the Camel from Clarence Duncan Chamberlin, who was running a business called Chamberlin-Rowe Aircraft Corporation refurbing and selling WW1 aircraft to barnstormers. The Camel seems to have been Chamberlin's personal plane rather than just company stock, as it was used for his aerial photography work as well. This would have been around 1924-1927.

More breadcrumbs...

Cheers,

Brett

[errolmartyn]

The following is from Air-Britain’s The Camel File by Ray Sturtivant and Gordon Page, pub in 1993. Note that N6254 is a US civil registration, not an RFC or RAF serial number. From this account it would appear that the aircraft’s original identity will never be known – unless a now rather elderly ‘schoolboy’ fronts up with the maker’s plate.

U.S.A. CIVIL

Captain M. R. James, a former No.45 Squadron pilot used an
unidentified Camel for barnstorming in 1919 until he lost his life in
it.

In December 1920, the Interallied Aircraft Corporation advertised
for sale in "Aviation" magazine 6 Camels in need of minor repairs,
also 33 Avros in need of general overhaul and some parts, as well
as a number of Le Rhone engines and spares.

American civil aircraft were not required to carry registrations until
1926. Only the following are known, these being NC1163,
NC3938 (ex C28) and N6254.

Of these, N6254 was a British Caudron-built [Camel] aircraft imported in
1920 by Clarence D. Chamberlin who used it for some years as as a
two-seater hack. It was purchased in 1931 by Col George Burling
Jarrett for $100 at Jersey City Airport for The Jarrett Museum of
World War One History, which was founded in 1929 at Steel
Pier, Atlantic City, New Jersey. Its true identity was lost soon
afterwards when a schoolboy stole maker's plate, and it was variously
marked "B-7301" and "A-1171". The museum's exhibits,
including the Camel, were later moved to Jarrett's farm, near
Moorestown, New Jersey. N6254 was stored during WW2. It
went to Aberdeen, Maryland in 1948 and was loaned to the US Air
Force. In 1950 it was sold to Frank Tallman and taken to Logan
Airport, Boston. It then went to a New England school for extensive
restoration, flying in 1955 marked "N6254". It was used for
film work, then sold to the Aeroflex Corporation who exhibited it
in New York. The aircraft is extant in the US Marine Corps
Museum, Quantico, Virginia.

Errol

[ZacYates]

There *may* have been Camels used in the filming of The Blue Max but unlike the novel none appear in the final product. It's highly doubtful to me.

[Peter Lewis]

Thanks for the valuable info there Errol.

I have posted the summary of yours and Brett's gen at the Flypast Forum (with acknowledgement), it may jog someone's memory and bring forth more.

[Brett]

Some photos of this Camel when it was with Tallmantz:

www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/8662778395/

Cheers,

Brett

[delticman]

I see the photo marked B7270- N6254, the latter is the American Registration and the former a Sopwith Camel of the RFC but that went to the Greek Air Force. Keep hunting guys.