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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 21, 2007 7:07:31 GMT 12
I was listening to Radio Live on my way home last night (around 4.45pm) and Paul Henry mentioned an interview he had done with a National Defence spokesperson earlier in the show and they indicated National was looking at reinstating the ACF - with Macchi's only. Paul also mentioned the saga of the Skyhawk and Macchi sale and had a written response from Goff to questions about the delays. Same old tripe... still waiting on State Dept. approval, etc, etc.
Did anyone else hear it? I only heard the end of the story. I had a look on the Radio Live web site this morning hoping something would be there but couldn't find anything.
I also hear through the grapevine (sources in NZ and the US) that Hoss Pearson is now only interested in the Macchi's. Apparently he has a contract to train UAE pilots starting very soon. He has started getting set up at Williams Gateway airport in Phoenix (same airfield the ATSI Skyhawks are based at). RNZAF personnel have recently been over there looking at facilities etc. The Macchi simulator is currently being prepared for shipment. My sources say the Macchi's are booked on a boat leaving from Tauranga in April.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 21, 2007 9:09:30 GMT 12
It sounds like - as usual - National are promising the impossible. They probably know he Maachis won't be here by the time they get back in.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 21, 2007 9:19:39 GMT 12
There's nothing mentioned on National's official website. Here's their defence page www.national.org.nz/PolicyAreas.aspx?S=5Do we really want that baffoon McCully as Defence Minister? He's National's answer to George Hawkins as far as incompetence goes. |
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Post by steve on Feb 21, 2007 11:18:34 GMT 12
If we can't sell the skyhawks, why don't we start the same business on a small scale say four a4s hire some ground support and re-employ some techos and instructors and earn some foreign exchange in advance training for frienldy nations...a type of air combat reserve as well?
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 21, 2007 12:09:25 GMT 12
If we can't sell the skyhawks, why don't we start the same business on a small scale say four a4s hire some ground support and re-employ some techos and instructors and earn some foreign exchange in advance training for frienldy nations...a type of air combat reserve as well? Helen will never let that happen in NZ. Besides the US State Dept will never let a civilian organisation buy them with the Kahu kit fitted. A sindicate of NZ Warbirds members have already tried to buy a couple for fleet support work and been turned down by the Govt. |
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Post by phil82 on Feb 21, 2007 12:47:30 GMT 12
National will not reinstate the Strike Force; period.
When Helngrad cancelled it, the then Leader of the opposition, Mrs Shipley, was spouting off that "when we become the Government etc, etc", and it was such a line of knee-jerk bull-dust I wrote to her and effectively called her a liar and that she was simply talking 'opposition -speak'. They had no intention of doing anything then, and most certainly won't resurrect the Strike force when they get back in, and it's a double certainty that those Skyhawks will crumble to dust at Woodbourne before anyone gets to fly them again. The F16 buy was, indeed, the deal of the century, but it was a oncer and won't happen again.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Feb 21, 2007 13:11:09 GMT 12
Nor will we ever be offered such a deal again probably.
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Post by steve on Feb 25, 2007 11:25:46 GMT 12
Yes I agree with all of the above... however softly softly John Keys PM in waiting would still have to except a majority cabinet decision if there were enough ministers in the pro air combat capability. (in some shape or form)
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Post by corsair67 on Feb 25, 2007 14:40:53 GMT 12
The problem with politics now is that the old guard of ex-WWII servicemen who became politicians have gone now, and they've been replaced by the greedy baby-boomer generation who believe in all that tree-hugging, "it's a beautiful world - we have no enemies rubbish".
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 25, 2007 15:46:55 GMT 12
That's very true Craig. That WWII generation may have still been politicians but they were from the finest generation and they knew how to solve problems, make provisions, etc. They were also largely 'of the people', they went into politics because they were farmers and shop keepers and everyday people who wanted to make a difference.
Today's politician are all either lawyers, big businessmen or the worst sort, career politicians who've done nothing productive with their lives - the latter went to university to learn politics and then became politicians. No 'real world' experience of the people, hardships, etc. Clark is one of that lot. She's never worked in a factory, pulled a pint, waited on tables, run a farm, dug ditches, etc.
Only a select few nowadays have come up through the hard roads, and a lot of them are getting out.
I wouldn't trust John Key any further than i could throw him either, he's already proven himself to be a sleazy, slimy politician type trying to win points. He may be the far better option at the moment, but I will wait and see before deciding if he can actually lead the country for the majority of the people, and not his own gains like Clark has.
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Post by phasselgren on Mar 7, 2007 22:12:15 GMT 12
I also hear through the grapevine (sources in NZ and the US) that Hoss Pearson is now only interested in the Macchi's. Apparently he has a contract to train UAE pilots starting very soon. He has started getting set up at Williams Gateway airport in Phoenix (same airfield the ATSI Skyhawks are based at). RNZAF personnel have recently been over there looking at facilities etc. The Macchi simulator is currently being prepared for shipment. My sources say the Macchi's are booked on a boat leaving from Tauranga in April. Any more news about the sale? Have this information been confirmed? |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Mar 8, 2007 9:18:46 GMT 12
Any more news about the sale? Have this information been confirmed? I don't expect there will be any more "announcements" by the Gov't after the embarrassment of the sale announcement made by Burton just before the last election. I suspect the aircraft (Macchi's) will just quietly slip out of the country if the deal does go ahead (I still have my doubts...). Would be good to arrange a protest march at Tauranga when they are shipped from the airport to the port (will have to be by road). Would make a good contrast to the protest at Auckland wharf when the Skyhawks first arrived in 1970! I wonder if Helen would like to be our special guest... ;D |
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Post by phasselgren on Mar 12, 2007 0:02:46 GMT 12
I see in Army News that the army has some problems to train their Forward Air Controllers:
"Linton military personnel using IFACT (Indirect Fire Forward Air Control Trainer) have been getting to grips with upgraded software that was installed recently. On hand to oversee training was Charles “Zoobie” Martin, Joint Fires product manager/subject matter expert from FATS (Firearms Training Systems) in Atlanta, US.
“My role is basically to get input from the users to help improve the product and help make it what they want. I was a forward air controller in the US Air Force and this keeps me involved in something I care about. I see people I worked with or trained in the Air Force, and I get to travel around the world training people”, he said.
The system is used by the military in many countries, including the US, Canada, UK, Australia and New Zealand.
Major Colin Huston, director of the Simulation Centre, said this upgrade allows the Army to give basic fire air control training to indirect fire controllers so they can become familiar with the procedures for calling in close air support from rotary or fixed wing aircraft.
“For example, in Afghanistan if they require close air support it will come from the US A10 aircraft or AC130 gun ships or even Apache gun ship helicopters. With this system they can become familiar with the procedures [in New Zealand] for doing this. Now we no longer have the fast jets this is the only tool used for training here”, said MAJ Huston.
However, MAJ Huston said the virtual training doesn’t replace controlling real aircraft. It allows familiarisation, so when they are dealing with real aircraft the soldiers are more familiar with the actual procedures.
“Simulation can’t replace live training but it can enhance it because you can achieve a higher level of training in the same amount of time. The alternative is to send soldiers overseas on courses but of course we can’t give them continuation. They still need to go overseas for accredited courses but we can now give them continuation when they come back.”
MAJ Huston said talking to someone in an aircraft travelling at 400kph is very different to talking to someone on the ground. Different reference points had to be used and the simulation centre hopes to get some pilots with fast jet experience in to help train the soldiers using IFACT.
“The New Zealand Army is the first in the world to order the full authoring capability to go with IFT, IFACT and WTS. They can create any computer generated terrain to go with any new scenarios and we will have the capability to be more responsive to unit training needs. That’s really exciting for us.”
The same company that makes IFACT also produces the Weapons Training System (WTS) already purchased by Army, and which will be used first in Waiouru next year.
“It is designed for simple arms training and that will be a huge support with more training capability for the recruits going through. It will teach them how to shoot and will also be available for experienced soldiers to keep their skills up”, said MAJ Huston.
Reported by Faye Lougher"
I guess it would have been cost-effective (but politically in-correct) to use the Macchis for training of the army and navy while waiting for the sale to come through.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Mar 12, 2007 9:16:40 GMT 12
The Army has no one to blame but themselves - it was their senior leadership that that screwed us and said they didn't need an ACF... of course we all knew otherwise as did many "thinking" people in the Army. I personnaly raised the querstion of who was going to train the Army in the FAC role with Burton at the Palmerston North RSA in 2001 and his answer was "That will be up to the Chief of Defence Force to sort out." He refused to accept that it was his Government's responsibility... having just made the decision to scrap the ACF. Since the ACF was disbanded the Army have even tried using radio controlled model aircraft to simulate it!
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Post by phasselgren on Mar 14, 2007 7:38:00 GMT 12
The Army has no one to blame but themselves - it was their senior leadership that that screwed us and said they didn't need an ACF... of course we all knew otherwise as did many "thinking" people in the Army. I have read about this but it´s not unique for New Zealand. When different units/services fight for a piece of the cake during times with shrinking defence budgets the fight tends to be "dirty". I have seen a lot of this in Sweden. As long as the Macchi´s remain in New Zealand there is at least a teoretical (but probably not a political) possibility to re-establish the ACF. |
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