chasper
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 80
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Post by chasper on Dec 12, 2012 14:53:08 GMT 12
Just read an article by David Child-Dennis in the latest elocal magazine about the restoration of Mosquito YC-Z. excellent article and he states 'There are spares for many aircraft the RNZAF has operated at Weedons and Woodbourne, including spares for the Mosquito, Harvard, Vampire and Canberra. The refusal to allow the release of these vitally important spares to restorers is incomprehensible. The RNZAF stock of aircraft manuals is a treasure-trove in its own right and should be the core facility of a restoration facility'.
I can understand the desire to keep some at Weedons for the museum but surely there must have been some serious effort to get some of this material released as it serves no purpose as is.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 12, 2012 16:16:49 GMT 12
What the?
Why is it that the Air Force Museum of New Zealand wanting to retain its own stores for its future restoration projects is "incomprehensible" to this guy?
There are plenty of Harvard and Vampire bits on the open market elsewhere if he wants to find them, and the Mosquito and Canberra material will surely be for their own use in future restorations, collected by them over a good deal of time.
This stuff is not in RNZAF storage, but Air Force Museum of New Zealand storage - two completely different things. With the new facility that is being built it will soon all be at Wigram, and Weedons will be closed completely.
And, um, as far as I am aware all their archives documents are indeed made available to others for research and use.
Who is this guy? Is he in warbird restoration or just another reporter?
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chasper
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 80
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Post by chasper on Dec 12, 2012 19:16:38 GMT 12
Almost all of the article is about Glyn's restoration project, is well written and is basically an interview with Glyn and tour of the shed in Drury. The bit that I included was part of the end paragraph pushing the economic advantages of warbird restoration and warbird tourism to NZ. The thought that there were in fact crates of parts for Mosquitos and other aircraft sitting in Woodbourne or where ever seemed too amazing.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 12, 2012 19:32:11 GMT 12
Anything at Woodbourne will be parts for the fleet of instructional airframes - Devons, Strikemasters, etc - and these are being disposed of anyway these days. Anything else of use will have gone to Wigram decades ago I am sure.
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Post by Richard Wesley on Dec 12, 2012 20:49:15 GMT 12
Full article here: www.elocal.co.nz/View_Article~Id~672~title~ELocaL%20COMMUNITY%20MAGAZINE%20-%20View%20Articles.htmlFrom everything that I have learnt about Weedons, the legend may be greater than the reality. I never complain about anyone holding on to what they have, as long as it is safe and sound and well looked after. Anything kept in storage now will be twice as valuable and useful in ten years time. Having said that, New Zealand is a small place and everyone sharing what they have, and working together for common goals is important where possible. I hope the RNZAF museum aren't adopting the "us and them" approach I've heard about over the years.
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Post by jp on Dec 12, 2012 21:37:07 GMT 12
Read the article - more than one error in it....
As for spares held by the RNZAF - take a step back, stop thinking of major assemblies and think - one Merlin spark plug would be a Mosquito spare, two would be spares - so technicaly it wouldn't take much for that statement to be true, without the inference that someone is depriving the warbirds industry of piles of parrts valuable to other restorations.....
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robb
Sergeant
Posts: 19
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Post by robb on Dec 13, 2012 21:21:33 GMT 12
Earlier this year I met up with Ted Packer. He is the fellow who collected a large amount of Mosquito components from around the South Island during the 70's. Eventually he gave most of it to the AF museum, including, amongst other things, 30 (thirty) escape hatches for the Mosquito canopy......
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Post by jp on Dec 14, 2012 6:24:50 GMT 12
well that would explain the world shortage of Mosquito escape hatches..... Seriously though, until the AF museum have a Mosquito of their own on display, they would probably be better to keep any of the parts they have - any spares they have could be used as trade items when it comes to restoration time. Also, if the stuff has been donated by individuals, they probably have some obligation to retain it......
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setter1
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 85
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Post by setter1 on Dec 15, 2012 17:24:52 GMT 12
The reluctance on the part of many Museums, Air Forces and companies worldwide to release parts/ information / data is linked in SOME cases to a reluctance to get sued by some persons idiot relatives should something go wrong and damage / death occur and the source of the material be blamed for faulty parts/ data. John
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Post by phil82 on Dec 15, 2012 20:33:54 GMT 12
The Air Force Museum has /had [is Weedons still utilised?] some bits and pieces, one would hardly call them spares because there is no way they would qualify to be reused. I asked the Museum about the ex-RAF B8 [similar to the RNZAF B12] they are holding, and was told it had massive corrosion and would only be used for 'display"purposes, if an when! It doesn't constitute spares!
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Post by denysjones on Dec 15, 2012 22:15:57 GMT 12
At then end of the day ownership of items rests with the body holding them.
If you donate something then that's the end of it you've given up ownership so forget kicking off about any subsequent disposal decision. (One of the reasons why Museums of Aotearoa says the term "long term loan" does not have a valid basis in law and so loans should be for a fixed short term specified period of time and so precludes restoration of an object of utilisation of it in a restoration of a larger object. )
So if you're sitting on the outside looking in don't think you've any right to expect that any parts should be released to any other body/project that you've got the hots for.
People like me who have spent 40years collecting these things are now seeing many projects coming to fruition so if say 20years ago we'd allowed the similar "let them go now"view predominate how many of those projects would now be achieving the progress they are?
Why therefore should the items we've spent so long accumulating and caring for be handed over to someone else now just because they've started a project (especially if they are an offshore one)...who's to say we won't start our same project in the future (which is what we've collected them for) and so need our parts for that.
Only when we've done our project and the parts are then truly surplus should we consider them for disposal. That's our right.
Us/our in this case are the RNZAF Museum or any other body or individual.
I know we at Ferrymead look envidiously at some of the stuff at Weedons but that's the RNZAF Museum's possessions so until such time as they decide they don't want/need the material then we have to respect their right to hold onto said same.
We expect the same in respect of what we own. (notice that last word).
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Post by craig on Dec 16, 2012 6:18:44 GMT 12
Maybe what is needed is some sort of swap list. Items which places have, but are surplus for whatever reason could be swapped for items needed (no money just pure swaps). I know this goes on already. But if there was one site where all surplus items could be viewed vs items needed surely a lot of mutual benefit could occur. It would be interesting from a nationwide inventory point of view to see exactly just what surplus parts are still out there.
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Post by saratoga on Dec 16, 2012 7:49:26 GMT 12
Another view to, is the items held by the airforce museum effectively belong to all New Zealanders. For these items to be given /sold to another group for a restoration , particularly if that group is a commercial activity,then that restoration is sold to oversea interests we have lost out. Not withstanding being able to assist ,and always exceptions of course!
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Post by htbrst on Dec 16, 2012 8:23:02 GMT 12
Didn't they destroy a lot of Anson and Oxford parts in the late '90's without offering them to anyone first? - thinking them to be no use to anyone - when the reality was quite different...
I hope that doesn't happen again - even if they have to resort to Trademe
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Post by baz62 on Dec 16, 2012 14:05:13 GMT 12
You have to be careful about letting people know what you have as some out there with light fingers take stuff and sell it. Unless you have excellent records or something is very rare its gone.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 16, 2012 15:31:08 GMT 12
Didn't they destroy a lot of Anson and Oxford parts in the late '90's without offering them to anyone first? - thinking them to be no use to anyone - when the reality was quite different... Where on earth did you hear that!? I doubt it very much given their have their own Oxford project.
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Post by nzjet on Dec 16, 2012 16:40:01 GMT 12
Didn't they destroy a lot of Anson and Oxford parts in the late '90's without offering them to anyone first? - thinking them to be no use to anyone - when the reality was quite different... Where on earth did you hear that!? I doubt it very much given their have their own Oxford project. They did, and dumped them down at the local scrap dealer where some of the parts were seen and were luckly to be rescued!
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davem2
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 97
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Post by davem2 on Dec 16, 2012 16:41:58 GMT 12
Yes they did, someone spotted it and I think the museum allowed a free for all for an hour or so at the scrap yard. There was a photo in FP IIRC.
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Post by denysjones on Dec 16, 2012 21:45:40 GMT 12
Not quite as noble as you might think Dave. They gave the scrappie the right to allow ones day's access to groups like us but we had to pay him for whatever material we salvaged at his nominated rates.
We were told that he had previously been told that no materials were to be allowed to be on sold.
In the heap was a raft of Lockheed materials, ex the Hudson project, and a lot of Anson stuff (including an entire rear fuselage frame). I can't vouch for any Oxford stuff being there.
We (Ferrymead) had to fork out a bit of wedge for appropriate Hudson plumbing.
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davem2
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 97
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Post by davem2 on Dec 16, 2012 21:55:44 GMT 12
Denys
Thanks for the clarification, disgraceful really, but pleased you managed to save some of it. I am sure if it wasn't spotted no one would have had the opportunity.
IIRC they were rightly embarrassed by the FP news item
Dave
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