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Post by Peter Lewis on Dec 17, 2012 20:57:16 GMT 12
Saw the Hobbit movie - in 3D - tonight. The visual effects work quite well. The story is crap of course, but you can enjoy the technology and the Southern Alps. After visiting Hobbiton early this year, it was quite fun picking out the bits of familiar scenery.
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Post by ngatimozart on Dec 17, 2012 21:30:35 GMT 12
Omaka? The strip would be too short, surely? Whenuapai perhaps? Or it could be based at Ohakea in the civilian Historical Aviation setup there and do low flybys at Omaka. Wonder if Woodbourne would be long enough for it to get in and out safely?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 17, 2012 22:09:41 GMT 12
It'll never happen so why even waste time thinking about it.
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Post by TS on Dec 18, 2012 8:19:43 GMT 12
Yeah you may be right Dave? But didn't someone say that about the Mosquito once
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 18, 2012 8:29:20 GMT 12
The Mosquito is privately owned. The Lancaster belongs to the People of New Zealand - where would the money come from to restore and operate it?
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Post by baronbeeza on Dec 18, 2012 10:09:42 GMT 12
Just like we always thought Wigram airfield was owned by the people of NZ. Don, and others, now live on that land. I am not so sure Don used his contacts to swing the land deal.
The people of NZ may one day decide to gift the Lancaster to the Historic Flight or the RNZAF Museum whereby it could be swapped at a later date.
While it seems most unlikely at the present point I would think anything is possible down the track. What will happen to the movie mock-up aircraft afterwards ? I am guessing museums would be showing an interest in them .
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Post by ngatimozart on Dec 18, 2012 13:44:20 GMT 12
Dave, if people didn't dream or think about things and reach for the skies, we wouldn't have the amazing warbird scene we do have here in NZ. Think about Glynn Powell and his dream. Look what that has achieved so far.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 18, 2012 17:22:31 GMT 12
You might as well all start fundraising to make it happen then, you'll need to raise a lot of cash to sort through the legal issues, purchase a replacement replica (which I am sure MOTAT will not want and there will be a major legal fight over), transport to get the real Lancaster to its new base, transport to replace it with the replica, the new hangarage at whichever place it will be based at, new or overhaulled Merlin engines and spares, a lot of other replaced parts thatre considered up to airworthy spec (where from?), lots more spares and equipment, staff to restore, maintain and fly the aircraft, insurance, and all the rest. You then have to keep raising cash each year to maintain the flight status, landing fees, CAA fees, ratings and training, ongoing insurance for both flying and hangarage, site fees, ongoing maintenance costs, etc, etc.
Or do you expect the RNZAF Historic Flight to simply add this to their budget themselves? You two claim to have served in the military, you know this is an impossibility when you look at all that is involved. Only a very small number of operators have managed to keep twin engined warbirds flying regularly in NZ. Other have tried and it has ended in major issues.
Nice as it would be, this is just totally implausible. As for having dreams, well there are people with big dreams, and then there are bloody dreamers.....
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Post by baronbeeza on Dec 18, 2012 18:25:38 GMT 12
You two claim to have served in the military, you know this is an impossibility when you look at all that is involved. . Yep, very much so. I was about during the purchase of the 626 at Ohakea... very much in touch with the guys during the rebuild afterwards. I was there at the inception of the Tiger Moth for the Historic Flight. We were talking two scrapped fuselages, the Fiji deal and the early talks with Dick. I even managed to give away the Tiger Moth spars for a motorcycle obstacle course before we found out what the timber had been bought in for. This was all before the museum of course..... well it was them and us back then. I was looking after the Harvards and we had to be wary of George. I even distanced myself from what was become NZ2415. I had never heard anything so far fetched so why would I volunteer to work over that Xmas break of 27 years ago. Two of the guys in the hangar did though and boy did I get a shock when I walked into our hangar after my holidays. For me that was the turning point of my views on the warbird restorations. Then again I have worked for the Tiger Club in the UK and did some pretty major repair work there. Been involved in a few rebuilds in the years since. I have worked on G-ACDC the oldest flying Tiger. I always imagined I saw that Lancaster when it flew in, I know I saw the museum Canberra. I think my memory of the Lanc was imagination based on seeing film of it. I have seen the Lancaster in the UK fly on any number of occasions. It was based just a few Stations from us at the time. I agree the hurdle is money. We are not talking wrecks here though. Some of the exhibits about the place were complete flying machines not so long ago. From an engineering perspective that makes it a whole lot easier. Sure there are always going to be political and legal issues in many cases of any prospective projects. We have seen that with the Burmese Spitfires for example. It is not my field at all but I can see from my armchair many viable aircraft projects about NZ. From an engineering viewpoint and with what we have seen with the recent restorations you would have to imagine that there would be no major issue there. I used to be dead against having museum style aircraft restored to airworthiness, the world has changed however. While it takes big bucks to operate any aircraft we have seen any number of veteran aircraft return to the skies. Some of these aircraft are worth the money being invested in them. Impossible with my money, then again I am not a venison guru or an award winning movie director.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 18, 2012 20:21:53 GMT 12
If money were the only hurdle, which is isn't, then you're going to need to find either one really very rich NZ-based billionaire who decides he wants to see a Lancaster flying for the nation (yep, very unlikely), or you will spend decades putting together the project from bake sales and attempting to find funding.
Look at the Just Jane aircraft in the UK, they have planned to get it flying now for decades and are still far from it, and that's in a place that has regular visitors, airshows, a much bigger population, and a lot more veterans and organisations that could support such a venture. Sure it is taxiing and is in top condition, but the step from that toward flight is a giant leap.
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Post by ngatimozart on Dec 18, 2012 21:31:37 GMT 12
When I was in both the RNZAF and the RNZNVR there were always more than one way of getting things done. Sometimes it's thinking outside of the square and being highly adaptive. Without us dreamers homosapien would be still living in caves eating raw tucker and freezing from the cold.
As always money is a big hurdle and no it is not expected of the RNZAF historic flight to fund such a venture. There could be legal hurdles too. However every journey starts with a single step. Same as every project usually starts with an idea, e.g., "what if". Yes if this ever progressed there would be hurdles and challenges but who knows? You don't know until you ask. Like you reckon it could be pie in the sky, but then again it might not be. We don't know that until we ask.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 18, 2012 21:35:56 GMT 12
Go on then, ask. I dare you. Get it flying. I don't mind being proved wrong when I see the Lancaster fly over my house. Till then I remain sceptical.
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Post by phil82 on Dec 19, 2012 4:49:59 GMT 12
Hmm...Given the proven ability and "Number 8 wire" philosophy, [no, not me, I mean real philosophy!] of New Zealanders, I have no doubt that, given the funding, the Lancaster could be flown. I doubt you'd get much change out of 30 million though.....and as Dave says, that's Dream Time! For that aircraft to be certified to fly would need a total nut and bolt restoration/replacement bearing in mind as an aircraft built for "hostilities only" that it is way past its use-by date.
So, and I've seen the Lancaster in the air and listened to that magnificent four-Merlin orchestra, I don't think there is a snow-ball in hells chance of of ever flying again.
Dreams however, are free, so fill yer boots lads!
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Post by baronbeeza on Dec 19, 2012 10:55:39 GMT 12
Dreams are free, but we all have them. Some are just fantasy, almost lunacy. Others can be more realistic and can indeed eventuate in real life.
This thread is about the Dambuster movie and it's progress. Who here ever saw that coming ? A remake of a 1954 movie getting made here in NZ....
How about something impossible ? The NZ Govt investing millions in the making of a series of fantasy movies because it would benefit our tourism industry.
Now what will be the outcome of the Dambuster movie ? Will that be recognised as being filmed in NZ and highlight the quality restorations done in this country in the past decades.
What if someone with the interest and money comes forward as a result of the movie. Someone like Jerry.... He says he is impressed with it all and has access to the remains of a Lancaster, possibly a marginal rebuild but he has the financial backing.
If he then approaches some restoration companies with his proposal, what would be their reply ?
Say then we do score a Lancaster rebuild, the same as we have just seen with the Mosquito.
I am saying now that this topic will come up again when the movie is released.
Dave mentioned the UK efforts. Yes, I have worked in the RAF and in GA and airlines there. You soon appreciate why that project will drag on for some years. The poster above has been there done that as well, he mentions the No 8 wire.
Our CAA are very accommodating, we have the expertise and history, the movie will generate the interest, - there is not too much missing from the equation.
I look forward to the release of the movie and the international reception and discussion it generates. Could it be a case of 'watch this space'?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 19, 2012 11:21:07 GMT 12
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Post by ZacYates on Dec 19, 2012 13:35:58 GMT 12
Look at the Just Jane aircraft in the UK, they have planned to get it flying now for decades and are still far from it, and that's in a place that has regular visitors, airshows, a much bigger population, and a lot more veterans and organisations that could support such a venture. Sure it is taxiing and is in top condition, but the step from that toward flight is a giant leap. One final argument, just take a look at this, Dave: www.lincsaviation.co.uk/about/NX611-Just-Jane-Return-to-Flight.htmThe newer updates are near the bottom, including a picture of four airworthy Merlins (overhauled by engineer and restorer of TWO P-51Ds Maurice Hammond) in front of the aircraft. They have a LOT OF overhauled components waiting to go in. And now, back to The Dam Busters.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 19, 2012 22:08:14 GMT 12
There is nothing stopping any museum aircraft from returning to the air if there is money available and the right people are involved. That is obvious. But there is much more than that stopping this particular aircraft returning to the air. Unlike NX611 'Just Jane', it is not a privately owned aircraft for a start.
By the way, The Dam Busters is the 1955 film. Dambusters is the modern day project title, which incidentally has disappeared completely from IMDb by the look of it.
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Post by ZacYates on Dec 21, 2012 11:25:45 GMT 12
By the way, The Dam Busters is the 1955 film. Dambusters is the modern day project title, which incidentally has disappeared completely from IMDb by the look of it. I didn't realise that, thanks Dave! Odd that it has gone from IMDb, especially as every interview with Sir Peter I read includes mention of the project. As a side note, more news on NX611's return to flight: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-20794398
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