RNZAF A4K oxygen mask difference to A4G?

[FlyNavy]

First image is of a back seat passenger in a TA4K sometime in 1970-80s. Second pic is an A4G pilot. I'm interested in the difference (if any) between the A4G oxygen system which required the mask you see and why the RNZAF passenger has the mask shown. This particular mask looks like a Macchi/Sea Venom mask (sorry I don't know name details).

When the Kahu update was made were changes made again to the 'pure oxygen under pressure' system (as in the A4G) or was it always different in the A4K?

Any help about the differences will be appreciated - thanks.
Phil.

[beagle]

NZ Skyhawk oxygen mask was British as oppossed to the A4g which to me looks american.
A4K was type P&Q and the americam model was the , on tip of tongue, same manufacturer as we had on the herks, um.... Gentex MBU-12Por a 20 . We had the 5P on the herks for standard aircrew.

I cannot remember too much regards the pure oxygen under pressure systems but it was heavy going trying to breathe and do other tasks while on it, as being S&S, we did as part of our course, since we were at 1TTS Hobsonville, time at DEMU as it was called at the time learning about all the oxygen systems, how they operated and sampled them. We even went up in the chamber to get the feelings of hypoxia ourselves.
I see they closed the chamber for many years and it has only recently reopened.

[Dave Homewood]

I recall doing the chamber thing too. It was uncomfortable alright, being in there without the mask on. For me it was almost as bad as the gas chamber at Woodbourne.

Interestingly, in the chapter of Trevor Pearce's book I just added to my website today he wrote about his 1944 experience of the chamber - as fighter pilots had to go through the experience then as they do now. Only then the chamber was at Woodbourne, whislt the Fighter Operational Training Units were at Ardmore and Ohakea. So they had to fly down to Woody in a Lodestar for the afternoon to do it. Seems like typical RNZAF planning was prevalent even then.

[beagle]

So you never were on the Sqn's at OH

[Dave Homewood]

Who, me?

I was only in the Liferaft Bay there. And only for four months before I brought my termination date forward by 8 months and banged out.

I think i have my course notes somewhere which may include Skyhawk masks, but not sure where I've put them. We spent very little time on masks at 1TTS because basically they said we'd learn more on the job. I never touched a mask after that for my whole career.

[FlyNavy]

Side view of Kahu oxy mask/helmet combo.



LOX container position.

Thanks for this information. The USN mask for the A4G was "MS22001" with hard shell as I have been told today. However what interests me is whether or not the A4K used the 'pure oxygen under pressure' (from a liquid oxygen container in the rear fuselage stbd side fwd of speedbrake). If the RNZAF used the LOX system then I'm wondering how the mask as shown was compatible; or made compatible. I have no ideas otherwise. Thanks.
Phil.

[skyhawkdon]

The A-4K came with the same Oxy system as the A-4G when new, but was changed to an airmix system (not sure of the date but it was before my time). As part of the G to K conversion in the mid 80's the air mix regulator was added to all the G's. The air mix system mixed cockpit air with oxygen from the LOX system at a ratio dependant on cabin altitude. It could be selected to 100% oxygen in an emergency or to cure a hangover (it works!). Not sure why the RNZAF went with British masks and helmets but it was the same for the Macchi. Initially the A-4 pilots used US masks and helmets but changed to the Bristish ones later.

[FlyNavy]

Don, Thanks very much for this info. The air mix system used was much safer in many ways compared to the LOX system (although hangover cures were always appreciated). :-)
Phil.

[lesterpk]

The MS22001 A4G mask is very similar to the A13A which is till used today on the Orions.
The P and Q mask the A4 used since I had anything to do with them was the green medical latex version rather than the black rubber one, we also changed to the MQR wire retention system instead on the chains, the chains had a disturbing habit of coming apart in the cockpit causing many an hour of searching for all the bits!

[beagle]

Evening Les. Thought you might have known a bit more being an Ohakea man.
Hows the sunburn

[lesterpk]

You can take that back thank you......
The only time I spent at OH was about 2 months learning A4 stuff before I went to Nowra, I'm a Whenuapai man and the sunburn is good actually, not as bad as I thought.

[FlyNavy]

To follow on [difficult in this thread] :-) about the "green medical latex version" of the P&Q mask here is a comment from an RAN Safety Equipment specialist: "...had a pretty severe skin problem with rubber hence the "white silicon medical mask" (P&Q type). He was fine with the yank (A4G) masks as they were made of a silicon material. The difference between the P and Q was size - the Q was larger than the P. Safety Equippo's tried to keep quiet to stop every man and his dog wanting to change their mask..."

Wish I had have known that at the time. :-)
Phil.

[beagle]

You can take that back thank you......
The only time I spent at OH was about 2 months learning A4 stuff before I went to Nowra, I'm a Whenuapai man

oops, well skyhawks I meant. I never did any time on them other than painting '54 at woodbourne and I remember packing about 1/2 a dozen drag chutes at Whenuapai.

and the sunburn is good actually, not as bad as I thought.

[lesterpk]

Hi Phil, I think you have your P's and Q's round the wrong way. P's were the norm, Q's (for queer shaped faces, at least thats how I remembered it) were for smaller narrow faces. I think all but one pilot in my time at 2Sqn wore a P.
Dont know why the Squippers would hide the fact, after all we are there to make things comfortable for the pilots. I know I certainly had a better appreciation of what they had to put up with after my short flight in an A4.

[FlyNavy]

Did not know about the difference or that "P's & Q's" existed until today. They were oxy masks to me. :-)

I guess I should have minded my "P 's and Q's" if I had have known...

A fatal RAN A4G accident (1974) canvassed amongst other things the possibility of replacing the LOX system with "airmix" but nothing was done to my knowledge. Good to see the RNZAF replaced LOX.

The quote used was a joking reply from a former RAN SE - so not serious. Probably all the more comfortable Sea Venom masks were thrown out, to be replaced by the uncomfortable Macchi mask (which I now realise was smaller).
Phil.