The RNZAF's last knucks

[smithy]

I know there's a few ex Strike Wing members who knock around here and I thought it would be interesting to know what happened to all the 2, 14 and 75 pilots who flew with our former Strike Wing.

I know Easthope and Osborne went to the RAAF but what happened to all the others who were serving at the time of disbandment? How many and who have gone to the RAAF, RAF, etc, etc?

Don and Barnsey, you guys can no doubt help out here and let us know who's gone where.

[skyhawkdon]

Without giving away personal details (I think it is important we don't name names here) this is what I believe to be the disposition of of the ex knucks (Barnsey will have a better idea than me).

About a dozen pilots went to the RAF, most of them are still there I believe. As we know a couple are flying in the Red Arrows and others are flying Harriers and the new Typhoons. 7 or 8 went to the RAAF but I believe only 3 of them are still there. The rest are now flying commercially either in Australia or back in NZ (if you are flying in Air NZ 737's, Airbus' or ATR's there is a pretty good chance one of the drivers up front is an ex Skyhawk pilot!). A few also went to Saudi (there was a steady stream of ex A-4 pilots going there even before the ACF was dumped). Again most of them are now back in NZ flying for Air NZ. A few are probably still over there though.

[30sqnatc]

The rest are now flying commercially either in Australia or back in NZ (if you are flying in Air NZ 737's, Airbus' or ATR's there is a pretty good chance one of the drivers up front is an ex Skyhawk pilot!).

Ahhhh, I thought that roll onto the Wellington approach was a but tight last time I flew ANZ.

[Radialicious]

Up until earlier this year, two ex A-4 pilots were flying the Beech 1900. One has since left for Cathay Pacific.

[smithy]

skyhawkdon said:

Without giving away personal details (I think it is important we don't name names here)

Good point Don. You're absolutely right, no names.

Seeing as so many of our knucks went to the RAF, do we know if any have seen action during the 2003 invasion of Iraq or for that matter Afghanistan?

And why does it seem the retention rate for the RAAF is low compared to the RAF? Better money or "working culture" in the RAF?

[skyhawkdon]

smithy said:

skyhawkdon said:

Without giving away personal details (I think it is important we don't name names here)

Seeing as so many of our knucks went to the RAF, do we know if any have seen action during the 2003 invasion of Iraq or for that matter Afghanistan?

Yes to both. Some have done multiple tours I believe.

[Calum]

A heap of the ex knucks ended up in Nowra flying for Pel Air. I tthink they all are know doing the airline thing. Everywhere from Sydney to Asia to the Middle East

Any one who went to the RAF will likely have done one tour of either Iraq or Afghanistan. Likely they have done more.

TO Hijack the thread a little, If you're Helicopter aircrew in the RAF/AAC/RN then you're likely to spend 8 months out of every 12 in Afghanistan or Iraq. They just don't have enough aircrew. The USMC/USN/USAF/US Army are also in a bad way for helciopter aircrew. I feel for the Yanks with there tours being 12 months and sometimes extended to 18 months !!!

[vgp]

And why does it seem the retention rate for the RAAF is low compared to the RAF? Better money or "working culture" in the RAF?

This link may shed some light on that in regards to the RAAF or then again it might not bearing in mind it is only a small percentage:

www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=278647

Their was a BBC news item on one news last year in regards to the Typhoon introduction into RAF service they interviewed an ex-Rnzaf 2 sqn pilot featured in the supersonic life trailer, he and a couple of other pilots then took the reporter and cameraman for blat in the typhoon.

[Calum]

The rentention rate for the RAAF is better than for the other 2 services. However aircrew wise it's a concern. Thre is an article from the RAAF CAF in the latest austrlaian Aviation.

Basically the problem is there is a massive increase in the amount of pilots needed by the worlds airlines. They can't rainn enough themselves so they look to other sources. This is also affecting other trades/careers but piltot are the most in demand/visiable

For example (IIRC) Emirates expects to expand from a workforce of 25000 to over 76000 in the next few years

[Dave Homewood]

Of course most of our top warbirds pilots served as knucks on those squadrons too at various stages. Many a generation before the last of the knucks.

[kiwi]

What happend to the other trades such as Avtecs , Armourers , etc ? Were they retrained or did they also leave for overseas jobs ?

[Calum]

There's a few Gunnies in the RAAF

[FlyNavy]

Guest Editorial by Chief of Air Force: Air Marshal Geoff Shepherd
[AUSTRALIAN AVIATION SEPTEMBER 2007 p.85]
Challenging and rewarding flying careers
The Royal Australian Air Force is entering one of the most exciting periods in its history.
In the next decade, nearly every platform will be updated or replaced. Billions of dollars are being spent during this period to ensure RAAF remains ready to apply air and space power at government direction.
However, it is not the aircraft themselves that keep the Air Force flying, it is its people. Therefore we continue working as hard as we can to attract and retain them.
Andrew McLaughlin’s Defence Update article in the August 2007 edition of Australian Aviation raises a number of issues regarding RAAF pilots that need correction.
Air Force works in a very competitive employment environment. As the commercial airlines industry expands in Australia, external organisations often target Air Force as a source of top quality people. Analysed over the long term, departures of Air Force pilots tend to be cyclical, reflecting fluctuations in the commercial aviation industry.
For a number of years pilot retention rates were strong. In the last 12 months, we have seen an increase in pilot separations at Flight Lieutenant and Squadron Leader level. These departures are not affecting Air Force’s operational ability.
Air Force has responded to this competitive environment, with a series of creative initiatives to ensure our pilots continue to have challenging and rewarding flying careers, are well paid for what they do, and there is balance between their work and family lives.
Air Force offers pilots and air crew a flying experience which is unique in Australia. Flying with Air Force is exciting, challenging and varied. Think low level flying in a F-111 or Orion, a combat mission in a F/A-18, or a night re-supply mission in a Herc. These are experiences commercial operators can’t offer.
Air Force pays its pilots well. It is wrong to claim that all people at a certain rank get the same pay. Air Force pilots’ remuneration packages reflect their competence and rate of flying duties. Pilots are in the highest pay grade of the General Officer structure.
Air Force develops its people. Our investment in pilots and aircrew goes well beyond producing top line flyers. Air Force produces leaders, men and women capable of high level analysis, who contribute to combat capability, inside and outside the cockpit. They can influence the direction Air Force takes and are pivotal in shaping the organisation’s future. In commercial operations, pilots can be trained on one platform and fly the same type of aircraft and sometimes the same routes for many years.
Air Force supports its pilots. In late 2006 the OPSO became a specialisation in the Permanent Air Force. The OPSO’s focus on planning and tasking duties, and this frees up pilots to do more of what they love: flying.
It is a fact that some Air Force personnel are lured away from the service by dollars. Many of them discover the commercial experience does not keep them stimulated. Every year, former Air Force pilots ask to rejoin. Among them have been 747-400 pilots, who after a few years of flying passenger aircraft repetitively, came back to Air Force for some ‘real flying’. We welcome our former pilots back and have an expedited re-entry process.
There is no doubt that Air Force life can place some pressures on family life. We’ve done a lot of work in recent years to minimise this. We have focused on stability of postings where an Air Force member can have several postings at the same base. Personnel management has been decentralised to a certain degree, with people in Force Element Groups having a more active role in managing personnel, particularly pilots.
Air Force is also a leader in developing flexible approaches for military workforce management. A small number of our fast jet pilots (former Permanent Air Force fast jet crew) work part time. Experienced Reservists conduct flying training for Air Force, part time. Other defence forces come to the RAAF to see how we do it.
Air Force has always seen lateral recruitment from our allies as a logical and effective way of contributing to capability. Every year, we attract pilot and aircrew applications from experienced personnel in allied countries, such as the US, UK, New Zealand and Canada. The important point to make is that, once appointed, these men and women are Air Force. Therefore any implication that investing in their development is somehow wasteful makes no sense.
I still get excited when I visit flightlines and see young pilots and crews preparing for missions. Whenever I get the chance, I fly myself. But Air Force recognises that the spirit of aviation that attracts people to the service needs to be coupled with strong development and retention initiatives. We are constantly looking for even more ways we can reward and recognise our people’s outstanding contributions and remain competitive in the 21st century employment market.
I’m glad and proud that I didn’t go commercial when I had the chance to in the early 1980s. The opportunities I’ve had to lead, use all of my analytical and decision making skills and fly for a long period in world-leading, high performance aircraft can only be had, in this country, in the RAAF.

[skyhawkdon]

kiwi said:

What happend to the other trades such as Avtecs , Armourers , etc ? Were they retrained or did they also leave for overseas jobs ?

There were over 300 people from all trades and branches (uniformed and civilian) made redundant in Nov 2001. All but about 20 were voluntary redundancies. A handful of Armourers went to the NZ Army and RAAF. A small % of the 300 have also since joined back up, not having found civie life to their liking. Others have gone overseas to the RAF and RAAF, but most are now enjoying civy life, working all over the world and in all sorts of different jobs. Personally I have no regrets. As much as I miss the smell of AVTUR and hearing the sound of freedom every day, not to mention the great people (there was a very strong sense of comradery and community at Ohakea), I now get paid far more than I did in the Air Force and don't have to put up with half the BS. Life moves on...

[vgp]

This may be of interest: from this months RAAF News. subject widebay Airshow.

Meanwhile, 3SQN XO SQNLDR Matt Hall demonstrated the aerobatic and low-level capabilities of the famous P-51D Mustang, and B Flight Commander SQNLDR Jason Easthope took over the controls of a former Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) Strikemaster in a heart-chilling demonstration of high-speed jet combat.

The aviation extravaganza included famous aircraft such as the former Qantas Super Constellation, as well as other vintage aircraft and dozens of private and model aircraft.

Backing the aircraft static displays was a range of exhibitors offering everything aeronautic for sale, and anyone interested in an aviation career had the opportunity to learn more at the careers expo.

SQNLDR Easthope said he flew the Strikemaster because he had flown the type in the RNZAF.

“It is easy to fly and is very forgiving when pushed to the edge of its envelope,” he said.

[phil]

kiwi said:

What happend to the other trades such as Avtecs , Armourers , etc ? Were they retrained or did they also leave for overseas jobs ?

Quite a few gunnies went to the RAAF, two or three to the Army (since moved on from there), a couple of us went to photographic (both of us left there too) and a couple went to SPEL (Serco - fixing army guns) in Trentham (those guys are still there).

A couple are even still working on Macchis for Safe.

[beagle]

don't forget us S&S who left at the same time. Strads, Sid and Matt, and a few others. I left at he same time, not that i was at OH, but I had bought a house in Blenheim and it was time to go.

[Barnsey]

My list is of the A4 and Macchi pilots around the time of the disbandment (to the best of my poor memory). Some had left a few months prior, in anticipation.
The list includes those junior knucks at 14 Sqn, who hadn't flown the A4 yet.

7 stayed in the RNZAF (1 to 757, 2 to the C-130, 2 remained as QFIs, 1 to P-3s, 1 to a ground job then P-3)

6 to the RAAF (3 to the F-111, 2 to the Hawk, 1 to the PC-9)

14 to RAF (4 to the Jaguar, 2 to Harrier, 4 to Tornado F3, 2 to Hawk, 1 to Tristar, 1 to C-130)

1 to RN (Sea Harrier)

1 to Pelair (Nowra target towing)

1 to Airlines

4 to big business or Study (Banking, IT, MBA, University)

Probably forgot a couple in there, but you get the idea!

[update to numbers]

[Barnsey]

... and what are we doing now?

Of the RNZAF 7, 2 have gone to Air NZ, 1 to Air Traffic Control, and others remain (2 are part time, I think)

The 6 RAAFies: 2 remain in (1 on F-18, 1 on Hawk), 4 with airlines (Cathay and Mt Cook)

The RAF 14: 3 in Airlines (Air NZ, Monarch), 1 in business (and owns a Pitt Special in Wellington), 1 back to RNZAF (QFI), 2 Red Arrows, 1 on F-18 exchange with USN, 5 on Typhoon, 1 on Tristar)

Our salty RN shipmate: Stock trader

Pelair guy: Airlines (Cathay)

Airlines: Still there

Big business and Study types: 1 now with Airlines (Cathay)

[update to numbers]

[Dave Homewood]

Part time RNZAF? Have they re-introduced the Territorial scheme for pilots now? Or do you mean they have desk jobs most of the time?

I understand the pilot who was displaying the 757 last year and maybe this year was an ex-Skyhawk pilot.