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Post by kiwi on Oct 6, 2013 20:45:22 GMT 12
I do not have an answer , but imagine that somebody would have the neccessary measurements for the span of the wing and height of the fins on the torpedo compared to the dimensions of the bomb bay . This should show what was possible . I have never seen a reason given for the supposed alteration of the gunner's position , but then I could have it all wrong . My thoughts are that possibly the doors were left open to accommodate the torpedo .
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Post by davidd on Oct 7, 2013 12:17:46 GMT 12
Most WW2 aircraft modified to carry torpedoes after they had been designed seemed to have trouble in accommodating this weapon due to its size, and even some that had been designed as such from the outset (such as the Japanese "Betty" and "Nell" Land [based] Attack planes) usually had to remove their "normal" bomb doors, or at least part of them to get them on board, so to speak. I think (from memory) that the American B-26 Marauder and the Japanese "Peggy" carried their torpedoes externally, as did most German, Italian and Russian land-based torpedo bombers. The PV-1 Ventura was adapted to carry the standard US Navy aircraft torpedo, but had to carry it with the inner bomb bay doors removed (it was never used in this way operationally). However when the PV-1 was modified to carry the small electric acoustic torpedo ("Fido") the full set of doors were retained, but they would still not quite close, which must have imposed a considerable drag burden, which had to be accepted even though most patrols carried out with these torpedoes probably never dropped it. However the deployment of this weapon was considered so important (due to its high "strike" rate against submarines) that this penalty was willingly borne. David D
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Post by nuuumannn on Oct 8, 2013 14:17:09 GMT 12
In the books I have read about the Hampden they all refer to either the bomb bay doors being altered or the bomb bay being deepened. That fact is, like Dave states, alterations were made, what they were is difficult unless someone can provide conclusive evidence of what was done to the Hapden. Take a look at the first image I posted of the Russian Hapden with the torpedo in its bomb bay, you can clearly see that the doors are left open with the stabilising fins fitted to the torpedo. It would be difficult to fit the torpedo with the fins without making alterations to the gunner's compartment.
Having done some reading about this since it has arisen; I relish the research opportunities these things present - on various websites different opinions abound, but I've come across opinions by knowledgeable individuals who I have come across before whose reseach would be difficult to counter. Nevertheless, like I said, what we need is clear evidence.
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Post by ianbw12 on Oct 14, 2013 12:57:27 GMT 12
Just to throw into the mix - there is also another photo of the Hampden in your profile, taken at the same time as the one posted above... I asked the question around the boards a few years ago and the general response was that the colour scheme was most likely a repaint of the 'night-bomber' scheme of dark earth, dark green and night black to the Coastal Command paint scheme of Dark Slate Grey, Extra Dark Sea Grey and Sky which came into effect in Aug 1941. It is hard to make out any demarcation in the photos, however, due to the light but if you look really hard, it might be there! Although, as 489 Sqn flew Hampdens until May 1943, it is also possible that this was an experimental scheme of what eventually became the scheme in Oct 1943 of Extra Dark Sea Grey and Sky applied to Beaufighters...?? Cheers, Ian
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Post by dewobz on Oct 14, 2013 16:31:40 GMT 12
That's really interesting Ian. I had thought all along that Medium Sea Grey was odd for the uppers. Conversely, the colour seen in some photos appears too light to be Extra Dark Sea Grey but I guess this could be daylight and/or photographic conditions? The two possibilities you put forward certainly seem more likely to me (though I am a bit of a novice regards ETO schemes).
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Post by ianbw12 on Oct 16, 2013 10:29:44 GMT 12
Yes, you can never get bored discussing colours of aircraft used in WWII!! Even seen some folks get to 'verbal blows' over the subject! One elderly ex-WWII pilot put the topic into perspective for me a while back - he said he 'was too bloody busy trying to stay alive to care about what colour the aircraft was painted!' The fact that someone went to a bit of trouble to take some all-round photos of the Hampden in question does seem to suggext an experimental scheme to me.
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Post by noooby on Feb 25, 2015 7:02:57 GMT 12
Ok, so it has only taken a year and a bit, but I finally got out to the Hampden. They have the crew door open during the day and there wasn't a sign saying I couldn't crawl inside, so I did I'll post all the photos and then I might do a tidy up once I see how they look. Cheers Graham
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Post by noooby on Feb 25, 2015 7:05:44 GMT 12
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Post by noooby on Feb 25, 2015 7:06:42 GMT 12
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Post by noooby on Feb 25, 2015 7:08:04 GMT 12
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Post by noooby on Feb 25, 2015 7:09:44 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 25, 2015 9:18:08 GMT 12
Thanks for these photos. What a shame such an important and rare aircraft is still sitting outdoors in the weather. It clearly needs some attention. But amazing to see none the less.
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Post by davidd on Feb 25, 2015 10:47:03 GMT 12
Fascinating stuff Noooby, if anybody still wonders why this aircraft was termed the flying suitcase, these photos should be of enormous assistance. David D
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Post by noooby on Feb 25, 2015 11:10:21 GMT 12
I'd love to know how the pilot got in the thing. The gunners get in the back and perhaps the bombardier/navigator too, but I think the pilot gets in through the bomb bay and then folds his seat down over the hole and sits on it. Bombardier crawls forward underneath him when they are on the bombing run I guess. Usually he sits behind the pilot ahead of the Upper Gunner. Ventral Gunner can retract the perspex for better field of fire side to side, but I didn't see any way to retract the perspex on the dorsal guns. I guess I'll have to go back and have another look
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Post by Ian Warren on Feb 25, 2015 11:41:25 GMT 12
Brilliant photos, the last to operate the Hampden of all countries Sweden and used as a civilian testbed, Canada was one off the counties that built the type, from memory of around 700 built half of them were shot down, maybe the torpedo bomber was a better or had a chance, look you can't see me a head on attack, I'm briefcase not a suitcase
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