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Post by Richard Wesley on Dec 12, 2013 19:03:40 GMT 12
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Post by kiwitone on Dec 13, 2013 1:48:27 GMT 12
nice pics Richard
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Post by baz62 on Dec 13, 2013 11:42:00 GMT 12
Yes thanks for those photos! I wonder if they plan on replacing the prop blades at some stage as they are not the correct type. I think these ones might be off a Hudson.
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Post by pjw4118 on Dec 13, 2013 12:41:51 GMT 12
The photos were taken on Wednesday morning at the official unveiling of the Avenger , now complete after its restoration .Thats Norm McElvie , Aviation Manager , in the picture.
The aircraft did a wing folding routine and bomb bay doors routine to say Hello. Buns and cakes followed the speeches and the move into the ADH will occur in January.
The space in the hangar will be taken up by the Ventura and Lodestar.
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Post by emron on Feb 16, 2014 19:38:58 GMT 12
MOTAT has always intended to display the TBF with the correct type prop but one has been difficult to locate. As mentioned in earlier posting NZ2527 came up for disposal complete with engine and prop and it was still in that condition when it was installed at Kuirau Park, Rotorua. I understand that the other two Avengers NZ2505 and NZ2539 came without R2600 or prop. So back in the early 1970's John Regan and team cannily struck a deal with the Rotorua Council to exchange the cowlings, engine and prop off 2527 for their project 2505. Subsequently MOTAT inherited the airframe with salt rotted cowls. a wooden biplane prop fitted to the shell of a P&W Wasp. The TBF-1 is powered by 1700hp version Wright R2600-8 Cyclone with 13'1" dia Hamilton Standard propellor 23E50-489 and blade DWG 6359A-12. This combination is today rare and I can only find existence on NZ2504 and NZ2505 worldwide. There are only 4 or 5 other TBF's above water throughout USA and even the Smithsonian and Naval Museum's have alternative styles fitted. Blades of the same pattern but smaller 12'7" dia (DWG 6359A-18) are still in qty use on B25's flying. There are still numerous TBM-3 Avengers flying (including local) but they all run the 1900hp R2600-20 which has the more common paddle blade DWG 6501A-0 fitted.
MOTAT has chosen to use the largest prop they had on hand in the interim, which is 11'9" DWG 6353A-12 (ex Sunderland) So if a prop specialist knows of 3 6359A-12 blades (static display condition) available in NZ then MOTAT would be interested.
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Post by Richard Wesley on Feb 16, 2014 20:11:32 GMT 12
Thanks for the interesting prop info, great to know the detailed background.
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Post by baz62 on Feb 16, 2014 21:27:31 GMT 12
yes very interesting background on the TBF prop, I never realised they were so rare. Maybe the B25 style might do even though they are shorter. Still the rest of the aircraft looks great.
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Post by emron on Feb 18, 2014 21:47:54 GMT 12
Did I say rare ? Ooops, the asking price probably just went up from phenomenal to astronomical!
There's only 2 of those props on public show but there must be heaps stuck away in basements or workshop stores out there. We'll make do with what we've got for the time being as the budget's all spent.
NZ2527 is still under dust covers waiting for final signwriting before it's put on display. Once on show you'll be able to add to the "spot the difference" list. Those tatty hand-me-down engine cowls have been repaired and configured back to regular TBF-1c standard with gun channel deleted. The wings are early style and must predate the fuselage because they have no provision for guns. So there isn't any forward firing armament installed. Defensive gunnery has been fitted, the turret has been installed and with a faithful recreation of the "stinger" tunnel gun position now completed. This style of tail gun enclosure was different from the later TBM-3 version and should be of interest to the modellers out there. I've only found 2 other examples elsewhere and neither of them yet complete or on public display.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Feb 19, 2014 11:30:49 GMT 12
Of interest when we were restoring NZ2504 at Wigram the top propeller blade when the aircraft was on display at Te Rapa has bad corrosion around the blade root.
The blades and hub (the hub is a standard Hamilton Standard 22E50 ala DC3) were kindly refurbished by the NZNAC prop shop at Harewood. They built up a Teflon patch to the corroded blade root which prevented oil loss when ground running but would not be certified for flying. Was great for us as we were able then to ground run that mighty Wright Cyclone until its demise with the piston separation in 1981.
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Post by baz62 on Feb 20, 2014 20:09:49 GMT 12
Those tatty hand-me-down engine cowls have been repaired and configured back to regular TBF-1c standard with gun channel deleted. The wings are early style and must predate the fuselage because they have no provision for guns. I've mentioned before how the early TBF-1 Avengers the RNZAF (the first 6 and at least NZ2503, NZ2504 and NZ2505))had the nose gun AND the wing guns. Photos I have seen of NZ2504 and her sisters seem to show that was their original configuration. Yet today NZ2527 has wings with no guns. And if you look at this photo (which I see has a photo credit to one Anthony Galbraith) of NZ2527 you can see the bulge on the wing (near edge of the yellow stripe)indicating she has the wing gun wings!  So if 3 of the 6 TBF-1 had all three (nose and two wing guns)and the remaining TBF-1C (NZ2507-NZ2548) had only two (wing guns) which Avenger had the non-wing gun wings? Perhaps NZ2501 NZ2502? I've never seen photos of these RNZAF Avengers, has anyone got any photos? |
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Post by Radialicious on Feb 20, 2014 20:22:08 GMT 12
Its nice to see NZ2527 looking so good and congratulations to the team responsible. I have a slightly drifting question that stems from a photo of 2527 in the recent Aviation News magazine. In the background of a photo of the Avenger, was what seemed to be a cowled Bristol Hercules engine on a servicing stand with a four bladed prop fitted. I say it looked like a Hercules because it appeared to have the inside cowl fan blades visible. Does anyone know exactly what it was that I saw?
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Post by Bruce on Feb 20, 2014 21:53:03 GMT 12
Its nice to see NZ2527 looking so good and congratulations to the team responsible. I have a slightly drifting question that stems from a photo of 2527 in the recent Aviation News magazine. In the background of a photo of the Avenger, was what seemed to be a cowled Bristol Hercules engine on a servicing stand with a four bladed prop fitted. I say it looked like a Hercules because it appeared to have the inside cowl fan blades visible. Does anyone know exactly what it was that I saw? It'll be a Hastings Powerplant |
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Post by Radialicious on Feb 20, 2014 23:16:46 GMT 12
Hmmmmm, what's next for the Hastings powerplant? I met with a group from Australia last Easter at Omaka who have an ex-Hastings engine that they'd like to get running sometime.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 21, 2014 0:02:32 GMT 12
They have the cockpit section and a wheel assembly (that is set up to retract and deploy at the push of a button) from the Hastings too there Al.
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Post by pjw4118 on Feb 21, 2014 13:33:57 GMT 12
I was talking to the shop boss , Norm McAlvie on Wednesday about getting oit running but he said it was seized ,a "and take a hell of a lot of work to make it spin '. Maybe something to do with sleeve valves ? What do the engineering Forumites say.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 21, 2014 14:13:45 GMT 12
Can Al fix it? Yes he can!  |
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Post by baz62 on Feb 21, 2014 20:31:04 GMT 12
Yep if anybody can Al can!
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Post by emron on Feb 21, 2014 20:34:56 GMT 12
It's a Bristol Siddeley Hercules 737 and last run almost 50 years ago. It may have been inhibited back in the day but has been stored in a variety of outside and indoor locations since. It's stuck tight and will take more than a squirt of CRC and a rubber mallet to shift. Being realistic now that it's up the display mount it won't be coming down again soon. But next time I'm passing by I'll try pulling thru on one of the blades of that 13ft De Havilland constant speed prop and it might budge. Hmmm, now 13ft propellor sounds familiar. Maybe they wouldn't notice if some blades were swapped in the dead of night!
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Post by baz62 on Feb 24, 2014 14:32:35 GMT 12
Cant recall where I got this photo from (Is it RNZAF Official therefore credit to the Air Force Museum) but it shows NZ2501 after a mishap. And I can tick off another TBF-1 with nose and wing guns! Just need to find a photo of NZ2502 now. I'm beginning to wonder if the gun psotiosn were there on all of them but the wings on NZ2527 (which don't seem to be her original wings) have had the gun positions removed? Are there any signs of patches or anything indicating the blast tube positions or the magazine doors on the tops of the wings?  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 24, 2014 15:27:45 GMT 12
You nicked that photo from a previous post I made Baz. It comes from the collection of a No. 30 Squadron member Alan Andrews, it is not an official shot as he had his own camera, and I got it via his daughter Lynn Adams.
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