H.P Hampden AN127 XA-Y of 489 Sqn RNZAF at RAF Leuchars 1942

[dewobz]

Here is my latest commission, 1/72 Airfix Handley Page Hampden B1 modified to TB1 as AN127 XA-Y with 489 Sqn RNZAF (RAF) at RAF Leuchars in 1942 -


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 028 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr

I used the Valom Bomb Bay & Weapons conversion set and Montex Mini Masks (for Valom) which provide the extra framing Airfix ignores. Kit bashing was mostly external, I sanded the prominent rivets down but not off and scribed panel lines based on Airfix's parallel double rows of rivets (plus a few others). Decals are various Airfix with Colorado White Codes and Ventura serials -


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 036 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 044 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 048 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 051 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 045 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 057 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 020 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 046 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 053 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


172 HP Hampden 3 4 5 FINv1 043 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr

There's a few more pics in my flickr account or go to -
www.kiwimodeller.com/index.php/forum/38-follow-as-i-build/28804-1-72-airfix-hp-hampden-489-sqn-rnzaf-an127-xa-y
to see (more-or-less) the whole build.
I owe thanks to all who took part in the recent Hampden discussion thread on here. It and John Ratzenburger's build that Alan W linked to it provided heaps of valuable information, speculation and reference.
Cheers
Wally.

[Dave Homewood]

Very nice job, well done.

[nuuumannn]

Very nice, Wally, marvellous, but (and you know what's coming next...), since we had the discussion in the earlier thread a colleague posted some images of the RAF Museum's Hampden TB.1 and he thoughtfully produced a couple of crackers of the ventral gun position. It was modified to enable the torpedo to fit. the floor was raised by 12 inches and the large window visible on bomber Hampdens was smaller, with a second window forward of it. I'll contact the guy and ask if I can post the images on this site, which shows the modification. Also, the Handley Page slots on the leading edge of the outer wing are not visible, perhaps a black line in marker pen?

Really great job, Wally; having read through what's been presented and seeing the images and doing a bit of reading of my own, I've come to a conclusion that the modification is as is suggested on the modelling forum and how I described, although I've not been able to get any definite answers about the bomb bay doors; they were obviously open when the torpedo had the detachable fins fitted, which, like I stated in the earlier post would likely have been natural wood; I've seen pics of Beaufighters with the same fins fitted that were not painted, although if there are images of them that were painted, that scuppers that theory.

Here's the view of AN127 I posted earlier; you can just make out the two windows in the ventral gun position.

[dewobz]

Hey nuuumann,
That's interesting about the ventral gun position and yes I can just make it out now you point it out. I was probably never going to modify this anyhow but the torpedo air fins being made of wood I didn't pick up in discussions. I did however notice on Ratzenberger's build thread a photo of this torpedo in a Beaufighter and the air fins look very light coloured.
See www.uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=191&t=2296&start=15 and scroll down.
I thought this might be just reflected sunlight because they look too thin to be anything other than metal, but of course wood can be quite thin. I'm not entirely convinced they are unpainted though. To me the 'consistency' of the surface looks like it could conceivably be yellow (or something?). The bombs on the Airfix kit are supposedly yellow.
Gotta say though, I'm tempted now to repaint the torp fins if I can get the torpedo out of the bomb bay, which might be a mission since it's superglued.

[flyjoe180]

Very nice build Wally, you've done a cracking job on that old kit.

[Calum]

Lovely build Wally

[alanw]

Hi Wally,

Nice "Flying Suitcase" (so named as I understand it, from it's very narrow interior confines).

I have the Airfix kit in my stash, - plan to build it also as a 489 Sqn bird

Thanks for posting your pictures to share with us.

Regards

Alan

[nuuumannn]

Hi Wally, don't rip the thing apart on my account; it really does look smashing and I had one of these kits as a child and it never looked as good as yours. If evidence is needed for the fins being natural wood, I've dug up a few images that might help, but, as I said, the decision to make alterations to your model is up to you. This profile comes from the net, but I have a book with it in (saves me scanning it) It's a 489 Sqn Beau:



The caption for the image referring to the torpedo reads; "The primary offensive weapon was the Mark XV torpedo of 18 in (46 cm) diameter. The torpedo was often fitted with a mostly wooden Monotane Air Tail, which kept trajectory and allowed a greater range of dropping speeds and attitudes."

Here's a photo of another 489 Sqn Beaufighter being escorted by a Mustang III; note the light colour of stabilising fin below the nacelle wheel bay:



Here's another of a Torbeau on the ground; same thing here:



Here are a couple of Canadian Hampdens dropping torpedoes with fins fitted:



Courtesy the Public Archives of Canada.

.

Courtesy WW2 Images.

As for the ventral gun position on the TB variant; I've contacted my colleague withthe images from Cosford and he's going to forward them to me. I hope this helps, Wally.

[baronbeeza]

I can soon remove this if it is not relevant. Is this a similar form of 'tail' on a torpedo ?
Courtesy Wilipedia.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fairey_Barracuda.jpg

A Royal Navy Fairey Barracuda II (s/n P9926) from Lee-on-Solent Fleet Air Arm Station, Hampshire (UK), with torpedo, in flight. The wooden plane that steadied the torpedo before it struck the water and broke off can be clearly seen at the rear of the weapon.

www.google.co.nz/search?tbs=simg:CAESVRpTCxCo1NgEGgIIAwwLELCMpwgaLAoqCAESBNkH0QcaIKhGUDjdaJmImDO61I9jssnukAV2dWpn-HTUgyAXmNXhDAsQjq7-CBoKCggIARIETOio0Aw&q=fairey+barracuda&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=y5zNUseYNcX5kgX_woDADQ&ved=0CDkQsw4&biw=1366&bih=652

[nuuumannn]

It sure is; trials with these were conducted at HMS Vernon, Gosport, the navy's torpedo base, with practise drops out over the Solent. Such trials with detachable stabilisers were also carried out during WW1 for aerial torpedoes, when it was found that the torpedoes used - modified ship launched devices were diving too deeply after dropping owing to their depth setting mechanisms failing on impact with the water.

Fantastic picture, Baron; The Baccaruda [sic] is one ugly aeroplane in a graceful kinda way. Big, too. if only Fairey hadn't stuck rigidly to the navy's request for an observer's 'lounge', which Fairey placed beneath the wing. The entire aeroplane was designed around this feature. With the wing, which was an awkward arrangement with its Youngman flaps located where it was, it blanketted out the tailplane, which needed to be raised, giving it the appearance of an afterthought. These things caused no end of handling issues. Because of the wing's location, the undercarriage design was novel, but extremely strong, however.

[errolmartyn]

Jan 9, 2014 0:54:47 GMT 12 nuuumannn said:

Fantastic picture, Baron; The Baccaruda [sic] is one ugly aeroplane in a graceful kinda way. Big, too. if only Fairey hadn't stuck rigidly to the navy's request for an observer's 'lounge', which Fairey placed beneath the wing. The entire aeroplane was designed around this feature. With the wing, which was an awkward arrangement with its Youngman flaps located where it was, it blanketted out the tailplane, which needed to be raised, giving it the appearance of an afterthought. These things caused no end of handling issues. Because of the wing's location, the undercarriage design was novel, but extremely strong, however.

Any old ire, any old ire,
Any, any, any old iron
Down at Lee you get them free,
Built by Faireys for a crew of three
Bags of fun, no front gun,
An engine you can't rely on
You know what you can do
With your Barracuda too
Old iron, old iron.”

A recording of same can be heard here;

sounds.bl.uk/View.aspx?item=0...9XX-1300V0.xml

Errol

[nuuumannn]

Right, I said I would get access to images of the RAF Museum's Hampden TB.I, so here are a few pictures of it taken by a colleague, Terry Fox and are his; copyright observed in their use.

The rear fuselage and tail boom:





The ventral gunner's cupola. Note the location of the windows:





Here is an image of a Hampden bomber from the Telegraph web page; you can clearly see the deeper rear cupola and window arrangement:

www.telegraph.co.uk/history/raf-bomber-command/3255238/Bomber-Command-aircraft.html?image=2

[vs]

Great pictures from the RAF Museum restoration facility. There is article about this in the Feb Fly Past…well worth a read!

[dewobz]

This thread has turned out great with all this added information. It's really good to have the torpedo issue so firmly clarified.
On my model it proved relatively easy to paint the tailplane in-situ, which I did in a Buff colour -


Mosquito FB VI 6, Ventura II & XA-Y 005 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


Mosquito FB VI 6, Ventura II & XA-Y 007 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr


Mosquito FB VI 6, Ventura II & XA-Y 006 (Medium) by Wally Hicks, on Flickr

There seems to be indications the torpedo tailplane may have sometimes been painted Yellow or Orange ...?
The Valom PE tailplane is not really thick enough to depict wood super-accurately and I have not risked bending it to achieve the (apparently) offset angle.
The ventral gun position still isn't accurate but, oh well, maybe next time ...
Perhaps some company will produce a 1/48 scale Hampden!? I'd be a starter for sure.

[nuuumannn]

A 1/48 scale Hampden would be very nice to see.

There seems to be indications the torpedo tailplane may have sometimes been painted Yellow or Orange ...?

I think the orange is actually natural wood (as I've said all along), like in the profile I posted above, just a little too orangey.

[ianbw12]

Nice work Wally!

[nuuumannn]

Just to add to this thread regarding the torpedo fins being natural wood, I had forgotten I'd taken this pic of the Beaufort at Hendon with a torpedo alongside fitted with the fins.