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Post by phil on Mar 4, 2008 6:33:57 GMT 12
I too have seen the HUD video of the ejection and also the helmet from the guy in the back. Looking at it its no wonder he suffered back injuries. I work with these helmets every day and have had to destroy a few scrapped ones, the effort and forces required to do what I saw are just unbelievable. 3 concentric rings in the top of the helmet from the crush forces against the canopy. Les. Unfortunately he had the seat pan motored up too high (so he could get the best view no doubt), and his helmet was higher than the canopy breakers. He was very lucky indeed.
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Post by beagle on Mar 4, 2008 6:50:42 GMT 12
Looked after properly by the aircrew, anything up to 5 years or so is likely, some crap out after a couple or so but usually down to poor donning/doffing techniques. Pretty sure when i was last in 6 Sqn S&S they had all the aircrew gear complete with helmets neatly arranged on proper stands etc. when I was at 40 Sqn we used to have to go and find the person who's helmet was due for servicing and would either get it out of the boot of his car or it would be at home where the kids are playing with it.
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Post by p40fanatic on Mar 4, 2008 11:59:19 GMT 12
Just watched the Roulettes clip - "Sqn Ldr Jeff Trappett" - would that be the same Jeff Trappett who today flies a CA-18 Mustang?
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Post by corsair67 on Mar 4, 2008 12:35:00 GMT 12
Certainly is, Zac: and what a beautiful Mustang it is too.
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Post by beagle on Mar 4, 2008 20:41:03 GMT 12
[/quote]
Unfortunately he had the seat pan motored up too high (so he could get the best view no doubt), and his helmet was higher than the canopy breakers.
He was very lucky indeed.[/quote]
yep, thats what happened, a trap for the young and inexperienced.
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Post by motoxjase on Mar 5, 2008 18:42:11 GMT 12
I just read the latest issue of AFM and it states the The United Arab Emirates MB-339As are seldom used due to their short range with a figure of 40mins quoted, thats very short legged. I presume thats in clean config, so can any-one tell me what was the range etc was for our Macchis? Cheers guys
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Post by skyhawkdon on Mar 5, 2008 19:43:09 GMT 12
I don't know about the 339A model, but our CBs with full internal fuel (2 x fuselage tanks and 2 x tip tanks) gives around 1 hour duration for a standard pilot training sortie and 1.5-2 hours ferry range. With drop tanks 2.5+ hours ferry range. At low level and full throttle you might only get 40 minutes.
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Post by beagle on Mar 5, 2008 19:47:54 GMT 12
Wikipedia quotes it's max speed at 560 mph and a 1100 miles range so that is just under 2 hours. Then again that is max speed and probably clean, so add a few bombs or what ever they use and it will drop. Maybe they don't operate with tip tanks Then again there is the hot and humid air they would be operating in. Just reading further on wikipedia, it has them listed under fighters as they use the Hawk for training. So maybe they are operating them with the tip tanks removed.
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Post by FlyNavy on Mar 5, 2008 20:15:52 GMT 12
Beagle, it would be nice if sortie duration could be calculated by 'max speed' X 'max range' [if that is what you mean] but it ain't like that. If indeed the sortie duration quoted is 40 minutes then I'm guessing that is in the desert heat with low level navigation to target and return - even with tip tanks and weapon load. Only my guess. I could post here some NATOPS 'range' 'endurance' diagrams for the Skyhawk [or our old Macchi MB326H] if you are interested.
To get best range / endurance usually requires a climb to high altitude, otherwise fuel usage at low level is horrendous. So for max range it is an immediate climb with perhaps a further climb enroute and then an idle descent from altitude depending on other variables.
Getting maximum speed from a Skyhawk at dot feet would require fuel flow off the clock at above 10,000lbs per hour. Anyway there was a time limit for 'military power' so it would have to be at 'MIL-3%' which would get to the max speed but an endurance time of about half an hour! Go to altitude in same configuration and the endurance would be 3 to 4 times that (depending). While the max speed due to IAS v TAS (ground speed) could be quite high. Maybe that is too much info.
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Post by beagle on Mar 6, 2008 10:12:26 GMT 12
oh no, my KBV30 is 240V with 1800W SUK and probably the same amound with regards BLO And I am 100% that is all at LO LO LO
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Post by miatamad on Sept 27, 2011 20:43:31 GMT 12
Unfortunately he had the seat pan motored up too high (so he could get the best view no doubt), and his helmet was higher than the canopy breakers. He was very lucky indeed.[/quote] yep, thats what happened, a trap for the young and inexperienced.[/quote] would love to know where this "fact" came from...the engineer in the back seat was reading the HUD symbology throughtout the flight --- right up to the time he pulled the handle. so NOTHING to do with getting the best view. The ejection was below 200ft with the aircraft at stall speed, there was no gently glide to a belly landing and in fact it was less than 2 seconds after ejection that the frame hit the mangrove trees. The seat handle and photo share pride of place in my lounge and the HUD video has been converted to MPEG and lives on my lap top...why??? because I was the young and inexperienced engineer in the back.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 27, 2011 21:38:55 GMT 12
Welcome to the forum miatamad. It is good to have you here. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I'm glad that the ejection worked and you managed to get out before the impact with the mangroves. Do you still have any residual affects from the injuries sustained? It must have been quite an experience to go through.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Sept 28, 2011 17:30:44 GMT 12
Hi Steve! Be great if you could write an account of this accident from your perspective here.
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Post by paddy on Sept 28, 2011 17:44:50 GMT 12
Back in my day when I used to jump out of aeroplanes my wish was to be the first non pilot to eject. I got two rides, one in a Skyhawk and one in a Strikemaster. Probably wouldn't have wanted to bang out of the Skyhawk as we were night bombing over Volkner Island.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 28, 2011 22:04:36 GMT 12
That is a crazy wish Paddy. But then I guess as an Armourer you might think differently from most of us. I for one had absolutely no desire to be put in the position to use any of the emergency-escape parachutes I packed, even if I had full confidence that they would work. ;D
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Post by baronbeeza on Sept 28, 2011 22:22:08 GMT 12
If I had to put my life in the hands of an armourer and an S&S guy then I think I would choose to go for a ride in a F27. Just kidding, did rides in a bluntie (twice) a JP5 and was very close to doing a mission in a Vulcan. Looking back I consider them all to have been high risk.
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Post by phil on Sept 29, 2011 21:59:10 GMT 12
I'd have had no issues banging out of a Macchi (I used to work on the Mk10), but I wouldn't trust an Escapac as far as I could throw one.
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Post by Tony on Sept 29, 2011 22:31:35 GMT 12
If I had to put my life in the hands of an armourer and an S&S guy then I think I would choose to go for a ride in a F27. Just kidding, did rides in a bluntie (twice) a JP5 and was very close to doing a mission in a Vulcan. Looking back I consider them all to have been high risk. You know I was about to make the same comment when I found yours ;D ;D ;D But then I did go for a sortie in the topdressing DC-3 when were on a Falcon's Roost at Gisborne. No bang seat in that ........ edit:There is a fantastic pic titled "Mind the coffee Bruce" in John King's fantastic book; Vintage Aeroplanes in New Zealand. Those who have been on a sortie will be able to relate to that pic...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 30, 2011 0:39:13 GMT 12
I take serious offence to the comments about not wanting to put your life in the hands of a Safety and Surface worker while flying. I packed hundreds of parachutes and life rafts and life preservers and suvrival vests, and I worked with dozens of other people who did the same thing. All of us did our job to the highest standards possible and strove to maintain absolutely utmost levels of safety. We were a friendly, light hearted bunch but when it came to our jobs we knew our work might one day save others when everything else had gone wrong - and I know that on many occasions the work of the Safety Equipment people of the RNZAF did indeed save lives. None of us slacked around or deviated from the strict guidelines, because we knew that anything like that may one day cost a life rather than save it, and that life would be on our hands. I personally occasionally had aircrew members tell me and others in the SEQ section their appreciation for the work we did, and they recognised that we were their last hope when things all went wrong in their job. I'm sure if but a few who took the time to tell us they respected our work, they were probably all thinking it.
In the many tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of man-carrying parachutes used by the RNZAF that were packed by S&S, I believe there has only ever been one fatality, and it was not caused by the Safety and Surface worker who packed the chute. In fact as the PJI who died was ex-S&S he may well have packed it himself, but it was not the packing of the chute that killed him. I have also never heard of any fatality or any other concerns caused by the way S&S packed liferafts, life preservers or any other gear that have harmed an aircrew member.
So jokes or quaffs about the work of the S&S workers being untrustworthy are not welcome. It serious grates, and reflects on all of us past and present in my opinion. I am sure all the armourers past and present must also feel the same way.
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Post by Tony on Sept 30, 2011 1:32:08 GMT 12
No offence intended Dave. I had plenty of S&S mates in my time and they all offered me the same warranty. If the 'chute don't work bring it back to us and we will exchange it for free. Dak, Bill and Tony spring to mind.
I never saw a single incident of "untrustworthy" activity or workmanship in any aircraft related trade during my time.
If you wish I will delete my post.
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