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Post by pjw4118 on Apr 25, 2014 15:32:10 GMT 12
No Baz not yet. Putting on The Captains Fancy was an easy decision , it really chose itself, and Ed Ware and Colin Emslie had provided a lot of data before they recently passed away. Their widows and family will be at the unveiling. The starboard side has a few things to consider, rarely was nose art applied to this side , it should represent another squadron, that 101 (SR) was chosen by the veterans themselves originally and it costs $5000 plus to repaint the markings ! We have some very deserving contenders such as Phil Lamason , Fraser Barron ,or John Barton. I dont think one will be selected for a while.
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Post by Ian Warren on Apr 25, 2014 15:45:16 GMT 12
A brilliant book by Norman Franks "Ton-Up Lancs", getting her 100th sortie 29 Jan 1945, they do say there is a lot of confusion, Mike was retired after its 101st trip and was scrapped 30th September 1947, the extra bomb symbols? and parachute - were these food support bomb missions in around Holland .
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 25, 2014 16:00:33 GMT 12
The new markings on the tail and mid-fuselage look really good. And so for the time being the Lancaster represented two No. 75 (NZ) Squadron aircraft, from different Flights on the squadron, and I guess quite possibly on the unit at the same time?
Has anyone compiled a complete list of all the aircrew members that flew ops in that Lancaster JN-M?
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Post by Ian Warren on Apr 25, 2014 16:07:36 GMT 12
Yes indeed I do have the list, aircrew, the wounded/KIA, the targets and dates of the sortie, started from 21/22 May 1944.Take a little whiles to scan.
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Post by pjw4118 on Apr 25, 2014 17:44:02 GMT 12
A lot of research has been done from operation number one onwards. We have seen ORBs and logbooks that dont always agree with each other so have accepted what is known from these sources, plus interviews with surviving aircrew and co relation from in least two sources. Hence we are happy with 104 ops out of a likely 106 and one Manna parachute of a likely three. JN-M also did POW repat trips and when the ORBs caught up, credited the aircraft with around six. The research will be part of articles in Aviation News and the RAF Memorial flight magazine due out in June. Enough to say JN-M flew over 100 ops , plus Manna drops and POW repat trips . She was an icon on 75 Squadron and certainly looked after her many crews. We may never know her true record of service to the last op. And thats fine with us.
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Post by Damon on Apr 25, 2014 19:03:14 GMT 12
I managed to visit MoTaT and see the newly painted Lancaster as Peter was taking the pictures of the completed art work. It does look fantastic and a job well done by the artist and those who got the reference material together. A fitting tribute to Lancaster crews and those who look after her today.
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Post by Ian Warren on Apr 25, 2014 19:09:42 GMT 12
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Post by avro683 on May 17, 2014 3:06:59 GMT 12
Her serial number looks odd to me??
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 17, 2014 11:03:03 GMT 12
Odd but accurate. There is at least one photo showing it and the painted has it correct.
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Post by avro683 on May 17, 2014 11:51:11 GMT 12
Thanks Dave, I guess I am used to seeing the normal look of NX665, PA474 etc.. I wonder why the original Captain's Fancy was painted like that..? guess we will never know....
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Post by jp on May 18, 2014 11:59:02 GMT 12
Finally - a Lanc that ticks all the right modelling boxes (for me, anyway) - lots of mission markings, H2S, nose art, and not already done to death - does anyone know if the original had the fuselage side windows painted over, or were they not fitted at all? Hard to tell from these pics... Thanks
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Post by Ian Warren on May 18, 2014 13:44:34 GMT 12
Last batch of 300 Mk II aircraft built by Armstrong Whitworth had the windows, these were the radial powered aircraft, only a small batch of 3020 Mk111 built had windows 183 aircraft and those were converted after battle damage, I think it would be fair to say it was built with out the windows since it was the last batch of 600 MkIIIs built. I have other volumes to check up on this, if I find anything else I give you a nudge.
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Post by pjw4118 on May 18, 2014 15:39:45 GMT 12
Avro , we assume the serial was stacked rather than linear as the fuselage code is M-JN , also not normal, but other 75 sq C flight Lancs had this system. It looks strange. It also probably didnt leave the regulation room in front of the tailplane for a normal serial. JP, as this aircraft comes from a later production batch , sheet metal not windows is my guess.
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Post by Ian Warren on May 18, 2014 15:57:26 GMT 12
this aircraft comes from a later production batch , sheet metal not windows is my guess. Confirmed, some Lanc's modified to carry the Tallboys and Grandslam were modified Mk1Bs and early MkIIIs and were given a letter example the Mk1(FE) still had windows but limited to condition of the aircraft weather used is not known.
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Post by pjw4118 on May 18, 2014 16:14:32 GMT 12
Forum members are welcome to the June 8 dedication service but , the Aviation Hall will be closed to the public. The RNZAF CAF plus senior officers and a number of Diplomats will be attending as well as our veterans , so there will be no seating. If you would like to attend please email furryfil@gmail.com giving name and that you are a WONZ Forum member
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Post by jp on May 18, 2014 18:17:05 GMT 12
Thanks, guys - must dig my Tamiya Lanc out.....
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Post by fwx on May 26, 2014 20:43:08 GMT 12
I think we can be pretty sure by now that The Captain's Fancy wasn't retired after 101 op's - too many people have said that they flew in her after that.
Now that photo of 15 Lancs breaking formation over Mepal has got me intrigued. I've not heard of that happening during hostilities, only returning from Manna op's after the war had ended, and going by the times of arrival back at Mepal for that 6.9.44 op', between 7.30 and 8 pm, wouldn't it have been getting a bit dark for a photo like this?
Cheers, Chris
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Post by komata on May 27, 2014 13:59:48 GMT 12
fwxx
Re: The time of return: Not necessarily. Britain was operating on British Double Summer Time (BDST) (ie,two hours AHEAD of GMT) from 1940-1945, so therefore the photo would have been ACTUALLY taken at between 1730-1800 GMT which would be quite feasible with a good camera and in (very) early Autumn.
Also, for some odd reason, and submitted FWIW, British darkness falls later than we are used-to in NZ, and there is a long 'twilight' period until it actually becomes 'night'. Not sure why (geographical location relative to the North Pole, perhaps) but this phenomenon has long been noted and commented-on. Perhaps that could have been a factor as well? (Only a guess, of course).
Hope this helps.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 27, 2014 15:59:21 GMT 12
It's not like that in winter! I recall pitch black by 4.00pm when I was there, which was bloody weird!
But I agree in early autumn with the British Double Standard Time, and taking into account the sun may already be pretty low in the photo, it's possible.
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Post by baronbeeza on May 27, 2014 16:12:30 GMT 12
I worked on a grass airfield in the South of England and in mid-summer I would still be putting the club aircraft away at 10pm. They do have some great long summer days, their problem is that it may only be for a matter of a few weeks each year. As Dave mentioned, the winters more than make up for it. I have done a whole week without stepping outside the mess at another job I had (Air Force).... and why would you when the temperature never rose above zero (Kiwi speak) the entire week. Great, the high today will be 28 degrees...
Ummm, degrees efff, efffing cold.
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