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Post by dewobz on Oct 30, 2014 10:41:05 GMT 12
Here is my partially completed Tamiya 1/48 F4U-1D Corsair based on this photo "Corsair & Friends" from The Corsair Pile -  1-Untitled-3_zpsbb97ad06 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  12-DSCN1240 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  03-DSCN1231 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  08-DSCN1236 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr I believe the photo was taken at Green Island when '76' was with No 5 SU, 24 Squadron in May/June 1945. The model is somewhat speculative at present. I'm very pushed for time today but have some questions I need answering if I am to finish the model in time for Armistice in Cambridge. It's not too late to change things at present prior to 2nd glosscoat. So please correct me if I'm wrong about anything and I need to know - 1. Did the 76 code number appear on the tail? If so, was it white? 2. Was the forward fuselage code number white or yellow? I am assuming white but in photos of 76 & 41 it looks dulled, i suspect by heat from the cowling gills? I think that's all but any comments & feedback at all is appreciated. These are the Xtradecals RNZAF roundel bars. Not perfectly accurate perhaps but nice and dark! Thanks so much in advance Wally. |
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Post by camtech on Oct 30, 2014 14:16:23 GMT 12
Who doesn't love the gull winged beast?
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Post by davidd on Oct 30, 2014 14:35:16 GMT 12
Wally,
That should read 3 SU at Green Island (not 5 SU), although the placement of the "last two" of serial on fuselage was in fact a typical feature of 5 SU, at Emirau! However I can explain how this aircraft ended up with this type of number placement. It was initially held as a reserve aircraft at Guadalcanal, then popped up at Emirau with 5 SU in mid-January 1945, and flew operationally with 22 Squadron on 16th and 19th January only, then vanished from the scene. Seems as though there was a bit of a reshuffle at this time between various SUs in the forward area after the loss of eight F4Us from the two Green Island-based SUs (No. 3 and 30 SU's) on 15th January 1945 ("Black Day"), to bring them back up to strength of eighteen aircraft per unit. NZ5476 and 4577 were two of these. In fact NZ5476 and 5477 had both shown up at Emirau (5 SU) by 16/1/45. The former was transferred to Green Island by 26th January when it was being flown on operations by pilots of 17 Squadron, and pilots of 24 Sqdn had taken it over by 25th March; later 20 Sqdn, then 16 Sqdn in turn took it over. NZ5477 had been sent to Green a few days earlier, and commenced operations with 17 Sqdn from 22nd January.
And as far as I know, 3 SU (and 5 SU for that matter) tended NOT to add the "last two" of the serial number to top of rudder - check with photos of other 3 SU and 5 SU F4U-1Ds. As to colour used for the forward-placed fuselage numbers, I would tend to suggest white rather than yellow based simply on study of B&W photos and relative shades! Remember that such obscure colour details never featured strongly in unit histories; seems they had more important things to record, much to chagrin of the modern modeller. All of 3 SU's aircraft moved westward to Jacquinot Bay in May 1945, including 5476, then back east to Bougainville on 15/9/45 before all returned to NZ. It is quite likely that your photo of "76" was actually taken at Jacquinot Bay, so those native folks could be New Britainers! The offical photographer took quite a few shots of the 3 SU aircraft arriving at J-Bay, as well as others of the aircraft at rest being closely studied by the locals.
David D
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Post by dewobz on Oct 30, 2014 15:51:44 GMT 12
David, thank you so much. What an amazing source of information you are.
I'm pretty sure I will remove the numbers from the rudder and repaint it.
Something that would be enormously helpful to me and perhaps other modellers, if you wouldn't mind doing it, would be a simple list of the SU numbers followed by their code numbering/lettering tendencies - placement & colour, (size + style but only if known) - for RNZAF Corsairs.
Please forgive me asking if you have already done this on here.
Having recently acquired some excellent (and long OOP) AeroMaster acrylic Non-Specular US Sea Blue paint from ebay - where there is a huge cache at good prices - and with these dark blue Xtradecal roundel-bars available I can see myself building quite a few 1/48 Corsairs in future.
Now there only remains the problem (for me as a brush painter) of how to get suitable RNZAF insignia for the upcoming Tamiya 1/32 F4U-1A ... but that's another story covered elsewhere.
Thanks again & Best Regards
Wally.
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Post by trx850 on Oct 31, 2014 19:59:42 GMT 12
Hi Wally. As soon as I can get my Corsair pages uploaded to my RNZAF site, all your questions regarding SU 'styles' will be answered! Just having a few problems with my passwords which Brett Green (who hosts my site at Hobbyvista)is trying to sort out for me.
A great source for the SU markings is in the Warren Russell 'Corsair Special' if you can find a copy.
As for 1/48 and 1/32 RNZAF Corsair decals, watch this space, as there are some on the way soon.
Cheers,
Pete M.
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Post by davidd on Nov 1, 2014 11:14:35 GMT 12
Peter M,
Please note that I was a fairly major contributor to Warren's book on the NZ F4Us, and that book is now 30 years old (that really surprised me when I checked just now!) I don't know about Warren (although suspect he still retains a keen interst in the subject), but general research work has continued (on a slightly reduced scale) on history and markings of the NZ F4Us since 1984, and my post above includes information put together since then on the life and times of NZ5476. Nevertheless, Warren's book does include a wonderful array of F4U photographs, as well as much information on the general efforts made by the various SU's to mark their individual aircraft, although they did not normally make very large efforts to "upmark' replacement aircraft received. Witness the two aircraft detailed above, which presumably retained their original SU markings for quite a few months after the transfer. Also it seems that it was the Base Depot Workshops crews (who assembled the aircraft at Espiritu Santo) who painted on all the original NZ markings, serials, etc and also probably added all the yellow "last two" or "last three" numbers on upper part of ruddder. And the Hobsonville assembly Depot in NZ likewise placed all the original markings, serials etc, including repainting all the fuselage roundels to a much smaller size than the original factory-applied American nationality markings. However SU's did apply some interesting additions at times, but others seemingly did as little as possible, preferring to put most effort into simply keeping them going, and really operational. It is possible to find some Corsairs that were completely repainted, but this seems to have been a fairly rare occurrence.
David D
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Post by davidd on Nov 1, 2014 11:25:09 GMT 12
Wally,
Note the reference above to Warren Russell's "Corsair Special", which does indeed contain fairly complete details of how to spot which SU an RNZAF F4U belonged to - but be warned, this is a real "Black Art" and many identifications may be erroneous! Or, almost as bad, you may have three possible answers. First thing to establish is: Does this aircraft appear to be in NZ, or "up in the Islands"? Relative size of the fuselage roundels can be important here. Backgrounds however cannot be ignored, and usually a combination of long study of backgrounds and visible markings CAN sometimes come up with the correct answer. Also an intimate knowledge of the movements of each individual aircraft can be of enormous importance. And bear in mind that by late October 1945 all surviving NZ F4Us (and FG-1Ds) were in NZ, most at the Rukuhia storage unit, and all wearing their final colour scheme (excepting those aircraft still in service, including those to be sent to Japan).
David D
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Post by dewobz on Nov 1, 2014 17:02:15 GMT 12
Pete and David, this is just the most awesome information about RNZAF Corsair identification generally and NEWS about Pete's Corsair pages going up on the Hobbyvista site and the impending arrival of new RNZAF Corsair decals! I eagerly await both. Meantime here is my rendition of NZ5476 '76' as finished as I can get it for now, given the difficulties of differing degrees of glossiness on a model after it's been Dullcoted. I'm working on that. Presently I've left the whole aircraft flat while I do so. I've fitted this Corsair with a motley assortment of long-range fuel tanks as appears in some photos. Tamiya 1/48 kitset, Eduard belts, True Details treaded wheels. Tamiya & AeroMaster paints. Xtradecal & Ventura decals -  22-DSCN1264 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  21-DSCN1263 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  40-DSCN1282 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  25-DSCN1267 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  28-DSCN1270 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  19-DSCN1261 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  20-DSCN1262 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  18-DSCN1260 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  17-DSCN1259 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  16-DSCN1258 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  15-DSCN1257 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr  38-DSCN1280 by Wally Hicks, on Flickr Cheers Wally. |
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Post by trx850 on Nov 1, 2014 18:15:20 GMT 12
Nice rendition Wally. They sure do look much better with the darker roundels!
David. Yes, decifering the SU markings can be a real can of worms...I have tried to do so using information taken largely from Warren's work, and photographic evidence, but that doesn't always tell the story! At least Warren tried to atribute each aircraft to it's SU, and then with the squadron using them at the time.
Once I get my pages up, I would most certainly welcome any additions or corrections you may be able to add. As you note, nearly 30 years ago that that original work was done!!!!
Cheers,
Pete M.
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Post by suthg on Nov 1, 2014 21:41:13 GMT 12
Nice good quality photos too Wally, lovely weathering, not just the usual stuff either  |
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Post by dewobz on Nov 3, 2014 13:48:40 GMT 12
Yes Pete, I totally agree. Darker roundels are a must now for me. Can't wait to hear more about the decals you have alluded to ...?
And suthg, thanks for your comments. I find myself increasingly interested in aircraft not represented in decal sets or regularly modeled. This is the first model I recall ever seeing of an RNZAF Corsair with the Code Number on the forward fuselage.
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Post by Brenton on Nov 3, 2014 21:55:22 GMT 12
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Post by dewobz on Nov 4, 2014 12:37:27 GMT 12
Great photograph Brenton and indeed a great collection of Allan's photos.
I suspect the aircraft is NZ5455 since it is clearly an F4U-1D carrying a bomb on each underwing pylon and it is operational in the islands.
Of interest to me also are the 2 ventral drop tanks seemingly lying about in the revetment.
NZ5455 6277 F4U-1D 57454 Shipped from USA on 17 August 1944 aboard "USS R.C. Stoner".
Assembled in Espiritu Santo and BOC Unit 60 on 02 September 1944.
At Espiritu Santo September 1944.
To No.15 Squadron on 30 September 1944.
To No.24 Squadron by early November 1944.
To No.19 Squadron on 20 November 1944.
To No.22 Squadron on 09 January 1945.
To No.23 Squadron by March 1945.
To No.14 Squadron on 08 August 1945.
To No.24 Squadron on 27 September 1945.
Ferried to New Zealand in October 1945.
Advertised for sale by WARB tender number 1704 and sold from Rukuhia to J. Larsen, Palmerston North on 02 March 1948.
However if it first went to 15 Squadron I can't explain the position of the code number. (I fear I may never get my head around that stuff)
MOST OF ALL I wonder what is painted on the port undercarriage front cover? It has the look of a pennant or squadron badge to me ...?
NZ5555 was also a -1D but was assembled at Hobsonville and delivered to 14 Sqn at Ardmore in Feb '45 according to adf serials.
Allan's photos also contain a slightly blurry picture of (what I assume to be) NZ5447 '47' in flight, also with Code Number on forward fuselage, first assigned to 24 Squadron.
Very cool. Thanks for sharing the link.
Cheers
Wally.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 4, 2014 18:38:46 GMT 12
Having blown up the original photo there is nothing on the port undercarriage door of that aircraft except a hand-painted white or light coloured rectangle. I have no idea what it is.
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Post by trx850 on Nov 4, 2014 19:05:21 GMT 12
The white rectangle on the undercarriage door cover is the standard data panel usually found there on the F4U-1D'.
Cheers,
Pete M.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 4, 2014 21:04:55 GMT 12
I guess you are probably right there Pete, but this one looks a bit smudged. No clear writing on it, unless it's tiny?  |
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Post by davidd on Nov 4, 2014 22:53:46 GMT 12
That rectangle is certainly a very common sight on the forward facing u/c doors of F4U-1Ds (and FG-1Ds?) in the overall dark sea blue scheme, but I have never really known its purpose. I always imagined it might contain printed information on tyre pressures or adjusting of the the oleo oil level.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 5, 2014 7:55:36 GMT 12
Hopefully someday we'll find a clearer picture of one.
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Post by agalbraith on Nov 15, 2014 11:45:34 GMT 12
Beautiful work Wally, I always enjoy seeing your builds!
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Post by dewobz on Jan 27, 2015 15:02:05 GMT 12
As for 1/48 and 1/32 RNZAF Corsair decals, watch this space, as there are some on the way soon. Cheers, Pete M. Any news about these decals you allude to here Pete ...? I talked to David Hannant on the email prior to Xmas and at that time it seemed Xtradecal were only releasing X32055 which included a post-war RNZAF Occupation Force Corsair. I note today on Hannants that X32055 has been discontinued (or sold out) and replaced with X32057 www.hannants.co.uk/product/X32057This set includes wartime roundels, serials and codes for NZ5272/5307 rebuild So here is one source of darker wartime roundels for F4U-1A (D?) Corsair. Cheers Wally. |
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