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Post by pjw4118 on Mar 24, 2015 8:47:38 GMT 12
I was just advised by Les that he has accepted Lord Asncrofts offer so his medals will return to New Zealand and form part of the NZ BCA display at MOTAT
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Post by komata on Mar 24, 2015 9:19:15 GMT 12
pjw
Confirmed. The following from the NZNS Newswire website will be of interest:
'Dambuster pilot's medals to stay in NZ
War medals belonging to Kiwi airman Les Munro have been gifted to an Auckland museum by a wealthy British benefactor.
Mr Munro, the sole surviving pilot of the famous Dambuster raid, had planned to auction his precious medals this week, with proceeds to be used to fund the upkeep of Bomber Command memorial in London.
But the auction was cancelled at the last minute when British peer Lord Michael Ashcroft offered to pay STG75,000 ($NZ148,000) for the memorabilia, which includes Mr Munro's Distinguished Service Order, Distinguished Flying Cross and logbooks.
Under the arrangement, the medals and other items will be given to MOTAT in Auckland, on the condition that the transport and technology museum gives a further STG10,000 to the Royal Air Benevolent Fund, guardian of the memorial.
These funds and Lord Ashcroft's donation will be used to care for the 2012 monument in London's Green Park which commemorates the 55,573 airmen of the command who died during World War II.
Mr Munro, 95, said he was extremely grateful to Lord Ashcroft, the owner of the world's largest collection of Victoria Crosses, in allowing the medals to remain on home soil.
"In the end ... I have decided that there was a delicate balance to be achieved between raising funds for the RAF Benevolent Fund and ensuring that my medals are preserved for future generations of New Zealanders to appreciate," said Mr Munro, who lives in Tauranga.
"Lord Ashcroft's very generous proposal represents the best way of attaining both these objectives. I am extremely grateful to him."
Mr Munro took off in the 1943 raids against German dams, but was forced to turn back after flak damaged his Lancaster.
The raid was later immortalised in The Dam Busters, a 1955 film due to be remade by New Zealand film maker Sir Peter Jackson'.
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To Lord Ashcroft, might I tender a very sincere 'Well done that man' for what he has done, and also thank SQN Ldr Munro for his acceptance of Lord Ashcroft's proposal, along with everyone who has taken my original thread and run with it. (Can those who can, please convey this to the appropriate people). You have all done an amazing work to reach what can only be described as a fantastic outcome. Thanks again to you all.
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Post by kiwirob on Mar 24, 2015 9:19:22 GMT 12
Personally I think the RAF and British Government attitudes stink. Without Bomber Command's valiant efforts and massive sacrifices they'd all be speaking German right now, and the RAF would be non-existent. Gilding the Lilly a wee bit aren't you? If you really want to thank someone for stopping the Poms from speaking German look not further than Sir Keith Park.
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Post by Mustang51 on Mar 24, 2015 9:37:43 GMT 12
Whichever, a wonderful gesture by Lord Ashcroft to purchase and donate and also an equally wonderful gesture by Les to make the offer in the first place. He must have experienced a considerable degree of angst in making that decision and it was made for all the right reasons. What men of character both of them.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 24, 2015 10:26:47 GMT 12
Personally I think the RAF and British Government attitudes stink. Without Bomber Command's valiant efforts and massive sacrifices they'd all be speaking German right now, and the RAF would be non-existent. Gilding the Lilly a wee bit aren't you? If you really want to thank someone for stopping the Poms from speaking German look not further than Sir Keith Park. You do realise the large part that Bomber Command had in stopping Hitler's Operation Sea Lion taking place, right? As important as he and his men and women were, Sir Keith Park was in charge of one sector of the air defence of Britain during 1940 and he has already been properly recognised officially for his part. Bomber Command however was a massive organisation that for the six years of the war was taking the fight from Britain to the enemy all over Europe when no-one else could (till the USA's own Bomber Command arrived three years into it), smashing their factories, oil refineries, docks, shipping, canals, bridges, roads, and all those things that, had they been left alone, would have allowed the Germans to increase their war production and thus spread through the world unchecked. Bomber Command in 1940 was smashing the German shipping build up that was meant to be crossing the Channel to Britain, and hitting their supply lines through France, etc. Men of Bomber Command in Wellingtons, Blenheims, Hampdens and Whitleys all contributed to the winning of the Battle of Britain as much as the men in Park's Group flying Spitfires, Hurricanes and Defiants. The British Government put in and maintains a Battle of Britain Memorial on the Thames that is all about the fighter pilots who fought for five months over Britain, but refuse to acknowledge a memorial for the men that fought for six years over Europe. Tell me why this is?
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Post by Brenton on Mar 24, 2015 11:19:13 GMT 12
I think it's still the case that there is some guilt about the bombing campaign. The airmen themselves could never be blamed for that and their courage was second to none. However, there's been quite a bit of revisionist history of the 2nd WW and things are not so clear as it once seemed. We have been blinded by our own propaganda I fear and looking at our past in a more honest and fair way is painful. Perhaps if we could we would better understand our plight today ?
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Post by Bruce on Mar 24, 2015 11:49:58 GMT 12
Lord Ashcroft rocks! he's long been a supporter of heritage issues and particularly military history. If I recall he was the one who secured the return of the VCs stolen from Waiouru a few years back. Hearby awarded the Order of the Decent Bloke!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 24, 2015 11:51:41 GMT 12
If there is guilt from the British Government for bombing the enemy, is there any guilt also for sending over 125,000 young men to do it on their behalf, and for losing 55,000 of them in the process? That is what the Bomber Command Memorial is about, remembering them, not about remembering flattened home and cities - but the Government seems to have no conscience about their own men.
Frankly I see no reason for any guilt, they did what needed to be done in order to stop the Nazi and Fascist nightmare. They need to replace their guilt with pride for the heroes who did the job.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 24, 2015 11:56:55 GMT 12
You're correct Bruce, he put up $200,000 of the $300,000 raised to lure those nasty thieving gits out of the underworld to bring the medals back. He's a great bloke all right.
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Post by komata on Mar 24, 2015 12:26:56 GMT 12
Dave H.
Unfortunately, as Brenton said, revisionist history is now prevalent in respect of some aspects of WW II. Sadly, it is largely ideologically (aka 'politically') driven, and can best be defined as the need by certain political groups to denigrate their national history. That by so-doing they re-write history and minimise and deride the incredible bravery shown by their forebears is unfortunately viewed as irrelevant, and easily disposed-of without conscience or fear of consequence. Effectively, and because it suits their doctrines and ideology, such individuals hate what their country has done with an absolute passion and will do anything to destroy both the country concerned and its history; hence Brenton's comment. That in fact such 'deeds and heroism' are what now allows these individuals to do what they are doing is of course, studiously and deliberately ignored. This 'emphasis on destruction and revision of history' has been an emerging pattern and theme since the mid-1960's, especially in (formerly) Great Britain (and to a certain degree, in New Zealand), and as those who 'know the truth' (by direct involvement) die, the revisionism will only increase, since with no-one to contradict them, who is to tell 'the realities' of what actually occurred.
On the basis of this , I would respectfully suggest that as the matter of 'guilt / responsibility for actions' etc. is largely 'political' it should probably be classified as such, and, as a result consigned to the 'no go' area of this forum in line with your 'No politics please' request that appears on the General board. Please note BTW, that I am not suggesting that the whole 'guilt' and 'responsibility for actions' thing shouldn't be discussed, but rather that there would be little gained by doing so. Without putting too fine a point to it, doing-so has already been 'done by experts'.
Submitted for your consideration.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 24, 2015 17:10:59 GMT 12
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Post by lesterpk on Mar 24, 2015 17:23:34 GMT 12
Just white boxes with X's again Dave.
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Post by ZacYates on Mar 24, 2015 18:23:10 GMT 12
I see it this time
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 24, 2015 18:51:35 GMT 12
Les, if you cannot see the pictures, here's the text:
Media Release LES MUNRO ACCEPTS LORD ASHCROFT’S MEDAL PROPOSAL
Aviation war hero, Les Munro has accepted Lord Ashcroft’s proposal to donate £75,000 to the Royal Air Force Benevolent Fund in return for withdrawing his medals, log books and associated memorabilia from auction in London and gifting them to the Museum of Transport and Technology (MOTAT) in Auckland.
Mr Michael Frawley, CEO of MOTAT, received the news from Mr Munro this morning and said: “we are very pleased with this decision and believe it represents a positive outcome for all concerned. Mr Munro has achieved his goal of supporting the RAF Benevolent Fund and his medals and associated memorabilia will be retained by MOTAT so that future generations of New Zealanders can learn about Mr Munro and his Bomber Command colleagues’ courage and sacrifice during WWII”
Upon learning of the decision, Lord Ashcroft commented “I am delighted with Les Munro’s acceptance of this win-win proposal whereby he has realised his altruistic aims of raising substantial funds for the upkeep of the Bomber Command Memorial in London and his medals are gifted to MOTAT for the benefit of the Nation.”
“Lord Ashcroft’s generous offer has not only ensured the return of these medals to New Zealand but the resultant publicity has also increased public awareness of the bravery and sacrifice of Bomber Command aircrew during WWII ” said Mr Frawley. “The Museum has an incredible respect and admiration for Mr Munro and intends to develop an exhibition highlighting the history surrounding him and his NZ Bomber Command comrades to commemorate the huge contribution they made to the war effort.”
Lord Ashcroft was one of the driving forces behind the establishment of the Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park which honours the thousands of young airmen who died flying with the Bomber Command during World War Two. He donated over £1 million to the initial Memorial appeal as well as the royalties from his book, ‘Heroes of the Skies’ to the Royal Air Force Benevolent Fund.
MOTAT had offered to cover the auctioneers, Dix Noonan Webb’s, withdrawal fees and out of pocket expenses on Mr Munro’s behalf if the medals were withdrawn from auction. Today the auction house announced that their fee of £10,000 should be donated to the RAF Benevolent Fund and MOTAT will facilitate this on their behalf.
Lord Ashcroft intends to personally collect the medals and logbooks from Dix Noonan Webb in London, and fly them back to New Zealand where they will be delivered to Mr Munro so that he can present them to MOTAT during April.
“We are deeply grateful to Lord Ashcroft and Mr Munro for coming to this arrangement and MOTAT will be honoured to accept these precious items into its collection” said Mr Frawley.
Mr Frawley also announced that he was working with Perpetual Guardian managing director Andrew Barnes, who has established the NZ Bomber Command Fund through the Perpetual Guardian Foundation. Mr Barnes has set up the fund and donated an initial $30,000 to help preserve the historical legacy of Bomber Command in New Zealand. The fund is open to donation from all New Zealanders.
Mr Barnes says, “We wanted to give all Kiwis the opportunity to contribute to the preservation of this important military history. Over time, the Fund will support a dedicated pavilion at MOTAT and a series of road shows that highlight the stories and courage of Mr Munro, Len Chambers and the rest of the members of NZ Bomber Command.”
Notes to the Editor:
Lord Ashcroft KCMG PC is an international businessman, philanthropist and author. He supports a wide range of charities, including those dealing with crime prevention and education. Apart from the contributions he has already made to the RFA Bomber Command Memorial and the associated Benevolent Fund, Lord Ashcroft has also been involved with the following:
He was a founder of Crimestoppers UK and contributed the setup costs for Crimestoppers New Zealand which was launched on 12 October 2009.
He donated NZ$250,000 to the Government’s Christchurch Earthquake appeal in 2011 to help New Zealand tackle the monumental task of rebuilding the city.
Over the past three decades, Lord Ashcroft has purchased more than 180 Victoria Cross medals, making his the largest collection of its kind in the world. Since November 2010, these decorations have been on public display at the Imperial War Museum London in a purpose-built gallery. He is passionate in his belief that we owe an enormous debt of gratitude to these heroes.
His offer of a NZ$200,000 reward for the return of the medals stolen from the Waiouru Army Museum in 2007 was instrumental to their safe recovery. Amongst the 96 medals stolen, were 9 Victoria Crosses including the rare VC and Bar of New Zealand soldier, Charles Upham, from World War II.
In 2009, Lord Ashcroft was appointed as Vice-Patron of the Intelligence Corps Museum in Bedfordshire and, in 2010, became a Trustee of the Imperial War Museum Foundation. Furthermore, in 2012, he became a Trustee of the Imperial War Museum itself.
Lord Ashcroft is the author of eight books, including five on gallantry, which tell of his lifelong interest in valour and reveal the extraordinary stories behind the gallantry medals in his collection.
For further information, photos, media passes or interviews with MOTAT, please contact: Vanessa Hefer on 845 3703 | 021 340 518 or email vanessa.hefer@motat.org.nz
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Post by trx850 on Mar 24, 2015 19:28:45 GMT 12
A marvellous outcome, and as stated, a 'Win-Win' for all concerned.
My thanks must go to Lord Ashcroft for his most generous action, along with the work of all concerned in this matter..
Pete M.
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Post by lesterpk on Mar 24, 2015 19:42:25 GMT 12
Thanks Dave, an excellent outcome.
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Post by kiwirob on Mar 24, 2015 20:34:43 GMT 12
Gilding the Lilly a wee bit aren't you? If you really want to thank someone for stopping the Poms from speaking German look not further than Sir Keith Park. You do realise the large part that Bomber Command had in stopping Hitler's Operation Sea Lion taking place, right? Bomber Command in 1940 was smashing the German shipping build up that was meant to be crossing the Channel to Britain Tell me why this is? It was the RN who smashed the Kriegsmarine during the Norwegian Campaign which effectively ended any chance of Germany invading Britain. After the Norwegian Campaign Erich Raeder knew he didn't have the forces to counter the RN in the Chanel and be able to defend the invasion fleet. Having lost the Battle of Britain the Luftwaffe couldn't guarantee air superiority either. I also think you are confusing the role of Coastal Command with Bomber Command, it's was Coastal Commands jobs to deal with German shipping, which they did in the North Sea, the Med and the Atlantic. I think you know the reason why, after the war the job Bomber Command did was wasn't looked upon with rose tinted glasses, the Germans were now pacified and friendly, the bombing campaign over Germany was best forgotten. It was a political decision.
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Post by komata on Mar 25, 2015 13:05:28 GMT 12
As the Waikato Times was the New Zealand newspaper which really 'got in behind' the 'Save the medals' campaign I think that it is only fair that they should receive some recognition. This article appears in today's (25 March 2015) edition:
'The Dambuster medals will stay in New Zealand thanks to a $166,000 (£85,000) deal.
[Libby Wilson]
Les Munro, the last surviving Dambusters pilot, has accepted an offer from a British entrepreneur and philanthropist, meaning his medals will not go on auction in London on Wednesday.
Retired squadron leader Munro, 95, put his medals and flying logbooks up for sale to raise funds for upkeep of the Bomber Command Memorial in London. But he has accepted an offer from Lord Ashcroft, who will donate $146,400 (£75,000) to the Royal Air Force Benevolent Fund, which maintains the memorial.
In exchange, the medals will be displayed in the Museum of Transport and Technology (MOTAT) in Auckland, which will donate a further $19,500 to the fund.
Munro said in a statement that Ashcroft's offer provided the best balance of his aims.
"In the end, in consultation with my agents Dix Noonan Webb, I have decided that there was a delicate balance to be achieved between raising funds for the RAF Benevolent Fund and ensuring that my medals are preserved for future generations of New Zealanders to appreciate," he said.
"Lord Ashcroft's very generous proposal represents the best way of attaining both these objectives. I am extremely grateful to him." The interest in the sale of his medals had astonished and touched him, he said.
This had generated donations from members of the public, auction house Dix Noonan Webb said. The auction house has agreed to waive all fees and out-of-pocket expenses for Munro if MOTAT makes a further donation to the RAF Benevolent Fund.
All funds raised by Munro will be used specifically for maintenance of the Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park, London.
It commemorates more than 55,000 aircrew - including almost 1700 Kiwis - who were killed in WWII.
Director of fundraising at the RAF Benevolent Fund Mike Neville said Ashcroft's offer was "simply terrific "We are very pleased for Les and delighted that he has realised his aim of supporting the RAF Benevolent Fund in their duty of maintaining the Bomber Command Memorial. Les' sacrifice and Lord Ashcroft's donation will help assure the long term future of the Memorial"
Waikato Times
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Again, thanks to all concerned.
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Post by pjw4118 on Mar 29, 2015 13:13:05 GMT 12
Lord AShcroft will hand the medal set and logbooks over to Les at a small ceremony at MOTAT in the middle of April. Les will then hand them to MOTAT/NZBCA to become part of the planned permanent 617 squadron display.
Purpetual Guardians offer of establishing a NZBCA Trust is very welcome and their proposed " Bomber Command pavilion " especially good news.
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Post by keroburner on Mar 29, 2015 15:56:12 GMT 12
Would be the perfect time to also ask the Lord politely if he could loan the kiwi WW2 VC, DFC group from his collection to the display as well. Imagine that!!! Then again I guess the insurance costs and risk of theft would ruin that idea. Maybe he could loan them a replica set for the display? Another nice bit of publicity for his generosity perhaps... its a very nice RNZAF group.
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