|
|
Post by harrysone on Jul 24, 2015 12:33:02 GMT 12
Correct me if I'm wrong or did the CAA just release regulations that from the 1st of August give councils etc the tool to ground all forms of recreational R/C flying (including foamies) in local parks?
|
|
|
|
Post by lesterpk on Jul 24, 2015 12:47:56 GMT 12
Can't correct you because you're not wrong. As the 'owner' the council can choose to deny permission, of course they have always been able to with bylaws etc, but the default now will be you don't have permission unless you specifically ask.
|
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on Jul 24, 2015 13:03:25 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Jul 24, 2015 13:57:02 GMT 12
Don't you love Bureaucracy, CAA could have left 'model aircraft' out of the drone menace equation but by branding everything an RPAS rather than a controlled cull they have effectively 'sprayed the spectrum with insecticide'  my dealings with Auckland Council through work (trying to get reserve access) will mean that you may/may not get permission 4-6 weeks after you give them your submission!! |
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on Jul 24, 2015 14:15:17 GMT 12
From a safety and issue for others perspective, why is a 'model aircraft' different from the new types of drone that have become available in the last few years?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 24, 2015 14:55:48 GMT 12
My guess is that in most towns, Council permission will involve a lengthy application process, a long notification period, including notices of intent in the local newspaper, compulsory insurance, signage erected and possibly each time a flying session is planned this will have to be gone through. Oh, and of course the obligatory council fees!!
It's a real shame, we have several people who park fly across the road in the Cambridge polo ground. They never cause any harm, their aircraft are always quiet electric types, and if you realise they're there, they provide a bit of spectacle for the neighbourhood. I have often sat on the back deck and watched the aeroplanes.
I have never had cause to go talk with the park flyers but my mate recently said he did, as he was interested in the flying. He said the guy said he didn't belong to the local model aero club because he just liked to fly solo as and when, without he hassle of dealing with a club, etc, and he lived near the park and just did it to unwind after work. This park is largely unused and empty as the polo people use it a handful of days in summer. I see no harm in it at all.
But this is perhaps more of a shame because it is model aeroplanes and park flying that has gotten so many young people interested and involved in aviation from the start. This goes back decades, perhaps a century! So many of the WWII bomber and fighter pilots I have spoken with and read about were men who as boys built model aeroplanes and flew them in their local parks - before the days of RC too, they were free flight. How many airline captains, RNZAF pilots, Aero Club instructors, home builders and many many others from aviation right now started by building model aeroplanes? The curbing of this, the intense regulation and not to mention the higher costs by restricting the freedom of park flying will undoubtedly put a lot of kids off and they'll not follow the aviation route as a result. CAA are perhaps cutting off the embryo of their very core business right here?
I'd like to ask how many drones and how many r/c planes have killed or injured people in New Zealand? I'd be interested to know. I've never heard of any on NZ,and my father used to be very involved, being the President of the New Zealand Model Aircraft Association (NZMAA) at one time, and a longtime president of two r/c model clubs locally. Have there been any? Have if there were, were they in a public park?
My guess is the best thing that park flyers can do right now before the regulations come into force is invite some local Councillors and Community Board members along to watch what they do, get them onside, and win them over. They can then advocate on behalf of local park flyers and support their view when the permission is being sought, hopefully.
|
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Jul 24, 2015 15:00:36 GMT 12
having operated both (fixed wing for pleasure & R/C fixed wing UAS and DJI Phantom Drone for work), I can honestly say the the drone is more dangerous, purely in respect to the way it can/will be flown to capture the 'image' or the great video clip. Your average R/C enthusiast is likely not to fly at parks that are crowded and to not push the envelope.
|
|
|
|
Post by lumpy on Jul 24, 2015 20:56:32 GMT 12
From a safety and issue for others perspective, why is a 'model aircraft' different from the new types of drone that have become available in the last few years? Because when you fly a model aircraft , its all about the flying - learning to do aerobatics etc . The further you can get away from onlookers the better ( no one likes being laughed at when you crash )  "Drones " generally try to get closer to people / objects , to get better pictures . Its really how they are used , rather than the type of aircraft . Hopefully some common sence will prevail ( just because the rules are there , doesnt mean people who are causing no harm or offence to anyone MUST be prosercuted ) . Some people wont even know what the CAA is , let alone that they have rules covering that toy helicopter they got for Christmas . |
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Jul 24, 2015 22:18:58 GMT 12
It's interesting, in conversation with council today ( to get access to reserve land for work related UAV work) they say that they have already fielded dozens of requests for access to local parks following yesterday's press release. It has caught the parks officials flat footed, they were not expecting the press release (which they say came right out of left field!) and as yet do not have a policy in place to deal with recreational fliers requests.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 25, 2015 19:15:30 GMT 12
Bureaucracy at its finest.
|
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Jul 26, 2015 6:36:24 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Jul 27, 2015 19:33:18 GMT 12
It's apparent that the department is driving up the cost of GA with all pilot medicals and undertaking bizarre wing bolt inspections of Cessna aircraft (non sanctioned by the manufacturer) other factors associated with the 'cost of compliance', driving young model enthusiasts out of the paddocks, what are they going to do in 20 years once the gravy train has dried up?
|
|
|
|
Post by Peter Lewis on Jul 28, 2015 1:37:41 GMT 12
Of no concern to current CAA staff, as they'll be retired and living on the Gold Coast with their government pensions by then.
|
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Aug 1, 2015 8:30:48 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by saratoga on Aug 1, 2015 10:18:55 GMT 12
I'd just keep flying your model aeroplanes. These rules do not have to be enforced and the application to model aircraft is obviously absurd. Was there any consultation with user groups? any public input into this blanket ban on anything that flies?. Do pigeon racers also have to comply as they are flying unmanned aerial vehicles?  ? |
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on Aug 1, 2015 10:47:02 GMT 12
I'd just keep flying your model aeroplanes. These rules do not have to be enforced and the application to model aircraft is obviously absurd. I agree that we are likely to have another set of rules that are enforced if you annoy someone with enough clout with people in power. Please explain why model aircraft are different from a multi-copter? "Different people fly them" is not adequate. Yes. rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/17769/drones-uavs-nz-merged-thread?page=1Talking of absurd... And if every drone/RC had the sense-and-avoid ability of a pigeon, I think nearly everyone would be ok with birdstrike-level risks. |
|
|
|
Post by saratoga on Aug 1, 2015 11:08:08 GMT 12
Do i need permission to go fly a kite?...  |
|
|
|
Post by lumpy on Aug 1, 2015 12:15:34 GMT 12
Do i need permission to go fly a kite?... That would be covered by " Part 101 - Sub Part B " . This Sub Part covers kites and moored balloons . Yes - you do need to swat up on CAA regulations before you head off to the local park to fly a kite with your kids - it may not be legal ! |
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Aug 1, 2015 13:07:20 GMT 12
The main difference with this sort of activity is that unlike drones you are unlikely to follow someone or that car out of the park and down the lane & across the road & to finish up hovering outside his front window while avoiding the trees to the right and the powerlines overhead and the streetlight on the left (risk, risk. Risk!). At least all the aventura is likely to harm is a few ducks or seagulls that get too close (and ones pride if one water loops & capsizes on landing!)
|
|
|
|
Post by ErrolC on Aug 1, 2015 13:09:38 GMT 12
Do i need permission to go fly a kite?... That would be covered by " Part 101 - Sub Part B " . This Sub Part covers kites and moored balloons . Yes - you do need to swat up on CAA regulations before you head off to the local park to fly a kite with your kids - it may not be legal ! I note that approx the SE third of Cornwall Park/One Tree Hill is within 4km of Pike's Point. Most places in this part of the park are part of the farm (rather than park proper), and are both likely to fall within 'Shielded operation' (big windbreak trees), and unattractive for flying kites in (big windbreak trees!). |
|
?
