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Post by conman on Dec 24, 2018 13:46:21 GMT 12
Yes but where would they be based now that Hobsonville has been turned into a housing estate, I guess you could build something at Devonport
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Post by gibbo on Dec 24, 2018 15:18:38 GMT 12
Yes but where would they be based now that Hobsonville has been turned into a housing estate, I guess you could build something at Devonport Devonport?... you'd never get the ok for that with the amount of boating traffic in that part of the harbour, and to the west you have a big grey coat-hangar! Safe to say the P8 will do most of the Pacific jobs & 'complimentary' capability will do closer-in SAR & MPA, although the B350ER does have a fairly decent range in it's own right. Can't seriously see a return to 'ducks', besides the ShinMaywa US-2 isn't a new design nor in widespread use (even if there is reportedly interest elswhere) so it won't likely tick the box for proven supportability. Resaon I say there is unlikely to be e return to flying boats is 50 years of Orion use has shown we don't need that capability and I suspect they are likely to require more maintenance being in or near sea-water most of the time. There wouldn't be any interest in spending $$$ on special basing facilities for what would only ever be a small fleet, although being amphib why would you do that - just land them at Whenuapai, Ohakea...wherever. I just can't see RNZAF having any interest in the capability.
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Post by saratoga on Dec 24, 2018 15:19:23 GMT 12
When the America Cup base is redundant that could be used, its not like we haven't paid for it anyway.
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Post by gibbo on Dec 24, 2018 15:28:57 GMT 12
When the America Cup base is redundant that could be used, its not like we haven't paid for it anyway. Yeah but you need to think about landing & takeoff - the beaver currently operating down there can manage it, but with the bridge & masses of boat traffic one of these things would be too big & approvals simply won't get past stage 1.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 24, 2018 16:06:22 GMT 12
Once again this thread sinks deeper into the realms of fantasy. America's Cup base? Devonport? Why would you not base it at Whenuapai?
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Post by saratoga on Dec 24, 2018 16:10:05 GMT 12
All the boaties just moved into Hobsonville would be upset.
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Post by conman on Dec 24, 2018 17:04:55 GMT 12
Once again this thread sinks deeper into the realms of fantasy. America's Cup base? Devonport? Why would you not base it at Whenuapai? Because they provide a great spectacle for the Harbour I think they require less distance than a Beaver , they literally jump out of the water, basing them on land just wouldn’t be the same
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Post by nighthawknz on Jan 5, 2019 12:18:33 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 5, 2019 13:10:24 GMT 12
Thanks nighthawknz, an special thanks to Air Force News for addressing some of the rumours that have been circulating.
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Post by ErrolC on Jan 5, 2019 13:16:14 GMT 12
Interesting post about software used by the USN for P-8 tactics planning The Navy’s Kessel Run(Kessel Run is an Air Force-run software lab that uses the Agile software development techniques)
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jeffref
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 74
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Post by jeffref on Jan 5, 2019 15:48:42 GMT 12
Another myth was that the P-8A was an inferior search and rescue platform because it “couldn’t go low and slow”. Again, this is incorrect. While the P-8A may look like the commercial 737 from which it is derived, the wings have been strengthened to compensate for the increased buffeting at low level and the skin in 80% thicker than a normal 737 to allow for operation in the more corrosive maritime environment. It also has a flexible wing making for a smoother ride and less crew fatigue as a result.
I guess we will have to wait to see the P8 flying at 100 knots at 200 feet which is what the P3 has done in the past. Keep that nose down and cross your legs as stalling is NOT an option.
The roadshows provided the opportunity to dispel some of the myths around the P-8A. For example, one myth is that the P-8A can’t provide the same coverage as the P-3K2 due to it being a heavier aircraft, which therefore can’t land in all the places that the P-3K2 can. This isn’t actually the case and the team have mapped the patrol coverages of both aircraft and shown that they are effectively the same even though there are two airfields where the P-8A is too heavy to land at.
So when can we can expect a fully loaded P8 to operate out of Kaitaia?
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Post by madmac on Jan 5, 2019 17:53:11 GMT 12
I wonder how long the NZDF's company of PR people spent getting that article just so, some of the wording seems a touch odd.
"has a flexible wing making for a smoother ride and less crew fatigue as a result" appears to be a direct copy of a USN statement that is unlikely to be correct the wings will flex more than a B737 but the primary driver of a smoother ride would be high wing loading.
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Post by nighthawknz on Jan 6, 2019 11:12:42 GMT 12
This isn’t actually the case and the team have mapped the patrol coverages of both aircraft and shown that they are effectively the same even though there are two airfields where the P-8A is too heavy to land at. So when can we can expect a fully loaded P8 to operate out of Kaitaia? Maybe that is one of the two airfields they identified ... maybe
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Post by ErrolC on Jan 6, 2019 11:23:12 GMT 12
This isn’t actually the case and the team have mapped the patrol coverages of both aircraft and shown that they are effectively the same even though there are two airfields where the P-8A is too heavy to land at. So when can we can expect a fully loaded P8 to operate out of Kaitaia? Maybe that is one of the two airfields they identified ... maybe And what is the use case where not being able to operate out of Kaitaia causes an issue?
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Post by nighthawknz on Jan 6, 2019 14:29:59 GMT 12
Not sure what you are asking?
I don't see any issue if they can not operate out of Kaitaia...?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 6, 2019 15:37:11 GMT 12
I think that is what he's asking - why on earth would the squadron ever need to operate from Kaitaia with either type?
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Post by bobajob on Jan 7, 2019 0:31:40 GMT 12
May be if it could operate out of Kaitaia it would be starting from the most northern point of NZ
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Post by FlyingKiwi on Jan 7, 2019 11:21:17 GMT 12
Maybe Waipapakauri should be reactivated?
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Post by Calum on Jan 7, 2019 11:27:20 GMT 12
Another myth was that the P-8A was an inferior search and rescue platform because it “couldn’t go low and slow”. Again, this is incorrect. While the P-8A may look like the commercial 737 from which it is derived, the wings have been strengthened to compensate for the increased buffeting at low level and the skin in 80% thicker than a normal 737 to allow for operation in the more corrosive maritime environment. It also has a flexible wing making for a smoother ride and less crew fatigue as a result. I guess we will have to wait to see the P8 flying at 100 knots at 200 feet which is what the P3 has done in the past. Keep that nose down and cross your legs as stalling is NOT an option. The roadshows provided the opportunity to dispel some of the myths around the P-8A. For example, one myth is that the P-8A can’t provide the same coverage as the P-3K2 due to it being a heavier aircraft, which therefore can’t land in all the places that the P-3K2 can. This isn’t actually the case and the team have mapped the patrol coverages of both aircraft and shown that they are effectively the same even though there are two airfields where the P-8A is too heavy to land at. So when can we can expect a fully loaded P8 to operate out of Kaitaia? Why does it have to either? Just because "that's the way it's always been done" doesn't mean it has to be done that way in the future. And anyway the SAR function should, rightly, be a secondarly concern. The RNZAF's core focus should always be their military roles.. And the P-8 is clearly better than the P-3K2 for that
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Post by snafu on Jan 7, 2019 13:29:21 GMT 12
P8 for RNZAF is multi-role it’s just not a SAR bus or sub hunter it’s also you ISR node and if CEC becomes even more important in an allied setting.
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