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Post by Mustang51 on Jan 18, 2016 7:03:56 GMT 12
Ok folks, here's one for both sides of the Ditch. Does anyone have a radome for a Catalina secreted somewhere in their hidden cache? Both radome and full technical details of the mount required here for the HARS machine to fully represent its PB2B lineage. HARS have just started looking for one to complete their machine but also require details of the mount so that CASA will verify and approve the installation. This could benefit machines on both sides of the pond as I am guessing that moulds could be made to produce a number. This is something that would really complete several machines both here, NZ and elsewhere. Anyone have any clues, or the real thing, technical manuals, drawings, details of modification kits etc?
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Post by ZacYates on Jan 18, 2016 15:17:44 GMT 12
I've got nothing but I hope someone can help as that would be amazing to see. Good luck!
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Post by Mustang51 on Jan 19, 2016 8:38:20 GMT 12
Yes it is something that would really make the aircraft "look the part". HARS has done a fantastic job on this machine removing the Clipper nose and replacing the blisters and nose turret. Just need that radome to complete it. Just wait till their new look C.47 flies.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 19, 2016 9:05:27 GMT 12
Is this an under-wing radome?
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Post by ZacYates on Jan 19, 2016 15:14:15 GMT 12
My initial guess was that it's one mounted on the top of the forward fuselage, just aft of the canopy, but now you've got me thinking!
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Post by camtech on Jan 20, 2016 13:28:16 GMT 12
I thought that the underwing system used Yagi aerials.
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Post by baldrick on Jan 20, 2016 14:10:33 GMT 12
This is the one he is referring to, above the cockpit. It`s between the prop arcs and must be quite close to the prop tips.  Simmo |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 20, 2016 16:14:42 GMT 12
Gotcha. The RNZAF examples never flew with them in WWII as far as I am aware, though they were used postwar on at least some of the Cats here.
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Post by camtech on Jan 20, 2016 21:29:24 GMT 12
The radome appears to have been a modification incorporated after the end of the war, and was incorporated into the aircraft destined to serve until retired. I am not aware of the PBYs being so fitted and indeed, not all of the PB2B were modified.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 21, 2016 7:36:32 GMT 12
They were fitted to some postwar RNZAF Cats, so you'd think that there would be existing relics around  |
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Post by baldrick on Jan 21, 2016 10:28:01 GMT 12
They were fitted to some postwar RNZAF Cats, so you'd think that there would be existing relics around When I joined HARS about 9 years ago, one of the senior members was a gentleman (in every sense of the word) named Rheese Hughes. Rheese was actually one of the RAAF pilots of A24-362 during the war and assured us that the Radome pictured was in use. Unfortunately Rheese is no longer with us. Sadly missed. Simmo |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 21, 2016 11:01:56 GMT 12
Yes, in use with the RAAF, but not the RNZAF in WWII till postwar, and not on all the postwar aircraft. So finding a radome here may not be that easy.
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Post by davidd on Jan 21, 2016 12:23:08 GMT 12
The fitment of AN/APS-3 radar in later PB2B-1 Catalinas was NOT a post-war modification, it was a standard factory fit at the Vancouver factory from about mid-1944 onwards. Reference to AN 01-20EK-1 (Pilot's Handbook & Flight Operating Instructions) dated July 1945 (although this manual was first issued dated 15/10/44) and AN 01-20EK-2 (Preliminary Handbook of Erection and Maintenance Instructions), dated 15/3/45, include data that PB2B-1s JX270 - 344 inclusive, and BuAer 72992 to 73091 were delivered with the original old-fashioned ASE radar (basically licensed version of the original British ASV Mk. II, and similar to USAAF SCR-521), normally fitted with splayed out Yagis located under outer wing panels for "homing" function, and co-linear arrays strung between trailing edge of centre section and leading edge of tailplane for "search" function.
For BuAer 73092 to 73116, and 44188 to 44227, the much more modern centimetric radar (AN/APS-3, original designation ASD-1) was fitted, with the single radome mounted just forward of propellers and above pilots' cockpit, although the trailing part of the streamlined dome was between props. To convert from the earlier to the later system would have been a big job, although not beyond consideration, but the RNZAF never seems to have upgraded any of their earlier aircraft, and I doubt that the Australians upgraded theirs either (but I stand to be corrected!) In the RNZAF therefore, it would seem that NZ4047 - 4056 (ten aircraft, ex BuAer 73095, 098, 73113, 3096, 097, 73115, 116, 114, 44202, 44203) were fitted with the AN/APS-3 equipment, and the associated radome. No other aerials for the radar equipment were necessary.
Of the above ten aircraft, 4051, 53, 54, 55, 56 all served with 6 Squadron at Halavo Bay from about February 1945 onwards (55 was first to arrive), and 5 Sqdn at Segond Channel operated NZ4047 from 24/5/45 as a replacement for the lost 4031. Cannot locate any WW2 service for 4048, 4049, 4050, 4052, which probably all remained in stored reserve till eventually being resurrected for the postwar air force. If anyone can locate photos of any other RNZAF Cats with the fuselage-mounted radome, please scan and post here!
David D
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 21, 2016 16:49:12 GMT 12
A troll through here may be usefull. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 21, 2016 16:55:32 GMT 12
Thanks for that information David. Well that is interesting.
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Post by emron on Jan 21, 2016 21:41:36 GMT 12
Most of the above is a rehash of replies to the same request previously posted 2012 under the "The Catalinas" topic. So if this radome was specific to Catalinas PB2B-1 and PBY-6A then it should have a Consolidated part number and appear in the parts catalog AN 01-5M-4. The only current airframe that I've found that has a radome fitted is PBY-6A at RAF Cosford. But this a different shape and is probably something more modern. The AN/APS-3 was also fitted to TBF-1D Avengers but rhe dome was mounted on leading edge of wing so was a different pattern. As well in PV2 Harpoon but mounted inside fuselage behind the nose cone. I don't recall ever seeing any remnants back in the day when MOTAT was actively searching out all things Catalina.
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Post by davidd on Jan 22, 2016 17:45:40 GMT 12
Presume the same radomes were also fitted to all production PB2B-2s, many of which were delivered to RAAF late 1944/early 1945. They had a similar radar equipment fit to the PB2B-1s. However I would think that such radomes would be provided with the radar equipment from the manufacturer (Philco?) or perhaps was a standard Navy part, with an NAF (Naval Aircraft Factory) number, or even an AN (Army/Navy) number.
David D
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Post by camtech on Jan 22, 2016 21:12:36 GMT 12
Thanks Peter and David - that clarifies a lot re these aircraft and their delivery status. I'll check later and see if I can add any details.
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Post by emron on Jan 23, 2016 15:02:34 GMT 12
I've been searching about for more info and I think I've found the AN designation for the radome - CW-22A/A, but no technical details yet. I think that's probably only the front dome and not the rest of nacelle and base that mounts on to the airframe. Also the manual for the APS-3 is publication AN 08-10-196 though I couldn't locate a source to download from. But more interesting, I've just come across a recent photo (16/10/14) in Ruud Leeuw's website of PBY-6A N9825Z with complete radar fitted !! Have HARS already been in contact with owner Rick Peterson, Moses Lake, WA ? It looks like he would be the best reference around. Also Taigh Ramey in Stockton, CA has a complete set up for his PV2 Harpoon project and is planning to get it operational. He might have additional data relevant to Catalina.
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Post by Mustang51 on Feb 1, 2016 7:27:40 GMT 12
Emron, thanks for the lead. Had not seen this one before. Now to see if it bears fruit...........
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