mroz
Flying Officer
Posts: 59
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Post by mroz on Apr 26, 2016 17:16:18 GMT 12
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Post by skyhawkdon on Apr 27, 2016 15:37:12 GMT 12
I thought the Australian Gov't was broke! $A50B is a huge amount of money but this is just one of many major defence procurement programmes they have running. Makes NZ look pretty insignificant by comparison. I wonder what the Aussies know that we don't?!
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Hoffy
Pilot Officer
Posts: 48
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Post by Hoffy on Apr 27, 2016 21:05:00 GMT 12
Dave , what we probably understand is the future for potential military conflict. So we take defence far more seriously - and we invest our money where it needs to be invested.
It's been really interesting to read the ongoing forums here in Oz in relation to the final outcome of the DWP/submarine decision. For a long time now the experts on various military forums have unequivocally predicted that we would choose the Japanese option , and in many ways this would have still been a good choice. The problem is that unless you are included in the evaluation process you are purely speculating and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
So we get people that are forum gurus being given immense credibility online , but they were dead wrong. They are now madly trying to explain away their initial position.
Probably the truth is that the French were able to demonstrate the following better than the Japanese and the Germans:
1/ Technological differentiation.
2/ Economic benefits within Australia.
3/ Security assurances specifically related to the transfer of IP.
4/ Seamless integration with US weapons systems(I believe this is now a contest between Raytheon & Lockheed Martin).
5/ Neutrality concerning Japan which ticked the try not to upset China box.
Obviously there is far more we will not know about for a long time , but now the decision has been made the hard work will begin. Many lessons have been learnt from the Collins Class experience and hopefully this will make the transition a relatively smooth one.
The French are reporting an approximately 10 billion Euro value to their economy on the back of the deal...
I did some calculations and it's strange to think that we only get around 3,000 direct jobs as a result of the ongoing submarine construction programme($50,000,000,000.00) , but the knock on effect will be massive across our entire nation.
I'm looking forward to watching things as they progress over the next 10+ years...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 27, 2016 21:46:15 GMT 12
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Hoffy
Pilot Officer
Posts: 48
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Post by Hoffy on Apr 27, 2016 21:59:26 GMT 12
That's so funny!!
I'm so sorry , I should have replied to Skyhawkdon , my apologies.
Which movie is that from anyway?
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Post by saratoga on Apr 27, 2016 22:02:48 GMT 12
Thank you for your investment in the Seasprite, much appreciated.
Hows that investment in the Tigers?,no? ...
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Post by suthg on Apr 27, 2016 22:05:44 GMT 12
I think "Dave" is quite with it!! I like the hair style and sweat band too  |
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Post by richard1098 on Apr 27, 2016 22:22:26 GMT 12
Thank you for your investment in the Seasprite, much appreciated. Hows that investment in the Tigers?,no? ... If in 10 years time the NZDF wants to spend good money to buy roughly two dozen worn out Tigers that have seen 20 years hard service, I'm sure the ADF would be more than happy..  |
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Post by saratoga on Apr 27, 2016 22:31:07 GMT 12
My point was they haven't seen hard service,aren't they also a french product?. You can keep your tigers,i reckon we'd be far better of with a larger fleet of Texans,the ones with teeth!.. |
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Post by richard1098 on Apr 27, 2016 22:36:41 GMT 12
My point was they haven't seen hard service,aren't they also a french product?. You can keep your tigers,i reckon we'd be far better of with a larger fleet of Texans,the ones with teeth!.. Franco-German Not hard service? By the time they're phased out they will have seen 20+ years service and logged more than few hours.... |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 27, 2016 23:28:14 GMT 12
That's so funny!! I'm so sorry , I should have replied to Skyhawkdon , my apologies. Which movie is that from anyway? Cheech and Chong's "Up In Smoke" (plus the same routine in several of their stage acts and LP records I believe. That's Cheech Marin in the photo. |
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Post by lesterpk on Apr 27, 2016 23:35:53 GMT 12
Thank you for your investment in the Seasprite, much appreciated. Hows that investment in the Tigers?,no? ... Yeah, French designed subs, built in Adelaide and fitted with a US combat control system. Nope, cant see any problems with that................... |
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Post by richard1098 on Apr 28, 2016 8:49:27 GMT 12
Thank you for your investment in the Seasprite, much appreciated. Hows that investment in the Tigers?,no? ... Yeah, French designed subs, built in Adelaide and fitted with a US combat control system. Nope, cant see any problems with that................... The US AN/BYG-1 combat system has been retrofitted to the current Collins class (Swedish designed and Australian built) starting from a decade ago. |
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Post by saratoga on Apr 28, 2016 17:25:03 GMT 12
Thank you for your investment in the Seasprite, much appreciated. Hows that investment in the Tigers?,no? ... Yeah, French designed subs, built in Adelaide and fitted with a US combat control system. Nope, cant see any problems with that................... Yep,just like the Seasprites in Aussie 'Service', this sub will never fly... . |
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Post by thelensofhistory on Apr 28, 2016 21:17:57 GMT 12
I thought the Australian Gov't was broke! $A50B is a huge amount of money but this is just one of many major defence procurement programmes they have running. Makes NZ look pretty insignificant by comparison. I wonder what the Aussies know that we don't?! Well from memory the first of the new subs won't enter service until around 2030. I would think bringing the timeline forward 5 years would be a smart idea. Why spend money on upgrading the ageing Collins Class Submarines? In short the potential of a conflict in Asia can only be ignored by the deluded. Eventually the lala land Helen Clark and John Key will come back to haunt us. Subs provided a effective conventional deterrent , intel gathering capabilities and combat capabilities. The importance of this to NZ Security shouldn't be overlooked. |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 29, 2016 13:33:28 GMT 12
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Post by jonesy on Apr 29, 2016 18:53:19 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 29, 2016 19:42:52 GMT 12
It's all the money they save by not needing trophy cabinets. |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on May 3, 2016 14:11:32 GMT 12
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Post by Mustang51 on May 3, 2016 16:51:24 GMT 12
I understand that we are not all in the loop when it comes to these decisions but..... French submarine being modified from nuc to conventional power... none built yet from my understanding. German sub is a scaled up version of another sub.... none built yet from my understanding....... Japanese sub I am told (rightly or wrongly) is one of the best in its class and exists. What did someone else on this forum say... "Never be the first to buy No.1 of anything'! The Tigers may have been in service for a while but in what year did they receive their final operational certification? The Seasprite....... well.......... trying for too much in a small package. Bit like trying to put a watermelon in a condom.... it just didn't work. I shall wait and see just how it all pans out. Hopefully this time you won't be able to hear the noise of their propellors on the other side of the Pacific. If I am wrong with any of the above, and I certainly could be, I'll eat my words but from what we mere mortals can glean from all the press over the last twelve months it would seem that way. As to neutrality with Japan and China. .. It may come down one day to picking a side to back. Fence sitting only gives you splinters after a while.
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