|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 27, 2016 16:19:25 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Jun 27, 2016 17:12:55 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by isc on Jun 27, 2016 23:33:45 GMT 12
The only thing I picked up on the radio news was that the family was upset that no reason was given for the engine failure(I have not read the accident report yet). isc
Read it, I think it's fairly clear, the problems with the turbo mods, and the health of the pilot.
|
|
|
|
Post by conman on Jun 28, 2016 7:59:04 GMT 12
Read the full report , I thought it was quite comprehensive, I would like to have seen more on the unrecoverable spin characteristics of the aircraft concerned, The manufacturers seem to have been somewhat cagey regarding the test information on the aircraft. I think possibly the pilots health situation was a red herring, at the end of the day the engine failure did not cause the aircraft to crash but precipitated a series of events, it sounds like the lack of situational awareness in the operating environment led to departure from controlled flight and eventually an unrecoverable spin, particularly interesting are the comments regarding the elevator trim position and the role of the autopilot, hopefully there are some important learnings from the report that can save others lives.
|
|
|
|
Post by scrooge on Jun 28, 2016 9:41:46 GMT 12
I'm pretty sure under FAA rules there is no requirement for spin testing for light twin engine aircraft, so it is rare for there to be spin data available for any of the aircraft in this class.
|
|
|
|
Post by conman on Jun 28, 2016 9:53:41 GMT 12
I think that is because they have quite nasty spin characteristics, for which standard recovery technique may not be effective in a fully developed state
|
|
|
|
Post by suthg on Jun 28, 2016 9:59:15 GMT 12
Conman - I also believe that the status of the two props bears an element of unbderstanding of the continued uncontrolled spin - the first dead engine prop was feathered, the second (right) engine also died but that prop was not feathered. Also the elvator trim was set for fully nose up - a little strange. Yes, some confused settings and the pax did not use the oxygen. Perhaps his thoughts were a little distracted with something else. Not a scenario any of us would want to get into, and we cannot presume to understand any of what was happening, and some of the observed findings/settings due to external forces and may have occurred once ditched. Sad to hear he was depressed too. There are manufacturer's recommendations in the manual of controlling the early stages of spin. So sad!
|
|
|
|
Post by baz62 on Jun 28, 2016 18:22:28 GMT 12
I suppose really noone can say how they will react to a real emergency. I'd like to think my training would kick in which is why I practice stalls and forced landings rather than wait til its BFR time. And with his medical condition adding to the stress and flying on instruments it must have been horrible for him trying to cope.
I agree lets hope some lessons are learned here.
|
|
|
|
Post by scrooge on Jun 28, 2016 18:47:04 GMT 12
It's interesting how we each take different points from such reports.
Regarding the full aft trim, that's not unusual for a situation with an autopilot left in Altitude Hold while the aircraft slows. It would progressively wind in more trim to maintain nose up to maintain level, until eventually it let go, or until the pilot disconnected, but the trim would still be fully nose up, making handling very difficult.
Another example of autopilot and trim misuse is in the Post Metro accident from a few years ago over Taranaki- in that case it was aileron trim, but same principle.
|
|
|
|
Post by isc on Jun 28, 2016 20:24:12 GMT 12
A while back I asked about insurance companies view of passengers flying in single engine aircraft as I thought the companies would favour multi engine over single, someone said about the single being safer. At the time I didn't understand the reason, but now I do. isc
|
|
|
|
Post by Peter Lewis on Jun 29, 2016 12:49:26 GMT 12
It was pointed out to me years ago that the most dangerous aircraft to fly is a light twin. I can well believe this, as I have actually seen one crash.
Without pointing the bone at this particular incident, I am also a bit twitchy about those who fly a low number of hours a year grappling with complex aircraft.
In my view, with any complex aircraft, you really need to fly such an machine at least an hour or two each week to keep current. This is a big ask for most non-professional pilots.
I used to fly a Piper Arrow, but gave it away when I realized that I was getting behind the aircraft due to lack of consistant practice.
I make no secret of my rather broad yellow streak!
|
|
|
|
Post by johnnyfalcon on Jun 29, 2016 15:38:25 GMT 12
I make no secret of my rather broad yellow streak! That's great Peter, 'cos that means we can see you in the circuit... |
|
|
|
Post by Peter Lewis on Jun 29, 2016 20:57:16 GMT 12
Damn right!
I'm still around to be seen, unlike some other bolder people I have known over the years.
|
|
|
|
Post by isc on Jun 29, 2016 23:06:54 GMT 12
I remember that some of our pilots(Rural) used the saying "there's old pilots, and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots. isc
|
|
|
|
Post by haughtney1 on Jun 30, 2016 1:43:05 GMT 12
Remember the the V-tailed Bonanza? it was christened "the fork tailed Dr Killer" for much the same reason as what we are discussing. The reality is that as aircraft get more capable and complex the barriers to entry tend to be cost, and not ability to operate it. In the case of the Baron, it's a complex high performance machine that is tolerant to a degree of mishandling, it will however bite you if you don't respect or remain in the flight envelope.
Sadly, it looked like the engine issue they had exceeded the capabilities of the PIC to deal with it safely. For what it's worth years ago I had a engine roll back in a military spec King Air that took me completely off guard, my training and currency gave me enough spare mental capacity to analyse the problem and deal with it and carry on.
|
|
|
|
Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jun 30, 2016 10:17:45 GMT 12
A very close friend of mine in Gisborne had a twin brother who owned a V-tail Bonanza.
My friend died of cancer several years ago, but as far as I know her twin brother is still alive and kicking, but I don't know if he still owns the V-tail Bonanza.
|
|
|
|
Post by angelsonefive on Jun 30, 2016 11:22:50 GMT 12
Not to make light of the particular tragedy we are discussing, but it has been observed that when an engine of a light twin fails all the good engine does , quite often, is shift the location of the crash to a different place.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomarse on Jul 4, 2016 22:12:10 GMT 12
Not to make light of the particular tragedy we are discussing, but it has been observed that when an engine of a light twin fails all the good engine does , quite often, is shift the location of the crash to a different place. A good friend who is an experienced multi-engine instructor says that, if you're not current and "on top" of the aircraft, in the case of a engine failure all the good engine does is to give you something to listen to while you crash |
|
|
|
Post by isc on Jul 4, 2016 22:54:43 GMT 12
You are probably better off if you switch off the music all together, then if you can't quite pull out you might not make as big a hole when you hit zero feet. isc
|
|
|
|
Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 4, 2018 13:10:42 GMT 12
|
|
