|
|
Post by lambstew on Sept 21, 2016 5:19:55 GMT 12
Hi All,
I'm a new member from Canada and was hoping someone could assist with a RNZAF service number. I very recently purchased a wartime era wrist watch which has a name and number scratched into the back case of the watch :
STEVEN NZ 75510
Any assistance would be very much appreciated,
Cheers,
Konrad
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 21, 2016 8:59:17 GMT 12
I do not believe that is a wartime service number, because wartime numbers were four digits only for very early officers and after 1940 they were six or seven digits with the first two numbers always denoting the year they joined, like NZ43xxxx for a 1943 number.
This style of number would be postwar if it's a number at all. Probably 1950's or so, although I'm not too clued up on the postwar system.At some point they dropped the NZ prefix all together, and then went to a single random letter prefix.
|
|
|
|
Post by shorty on Sept 21, 2016 9:10:17 GMT 12
Slight correction Dave, they didn't go straight from NZ to a "random" number. When I joined we just had a 5 digit number, some years later the check letter was added to the front, there is a set formula for allocating that letter (not a random selection) which was explained to us at the time but I can't recall what it was.
|
|
|
|
Post by camtech on Sept 21, 2016 10:12:23 GMT 12
Agree with Dave - looks like a 50's no to me.
Yes Shorty, there was a formula the derived the check letter, to ensure there were no duplications.
I note now service nos are 6 digits.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 21, 2016 10:41:52 GMT 12
Slight correction Dave, they didn't go straight from NZ to a "random" number. When I joined we just had a 5 digit number, some years later the check letter was added to the front, That is exactly what I meant, they dropped the NZ prefix and just had a number for a period, and then later they added he single letter prefix. I guess I should have added the word 'later' in there. I meant random in terms of the serials did not all have a consistent NZ prefix like the wartime and some pre-WWII numbers had. If you looked down a list of new recruits just allocated their service numbers, the numbers are all sequential but the letter prefix is not the same and they were not alphabetical either. I had the prefix N and my good mate had J and others had a random spread of prefix letters on my course. This is what I mean. |
|
|
|
Post by noooby on Sept 21, 2016 10:58:54 GMT 12
Didn't exactly drop the NZ either. I joined in 1991, but when I got my dog tags, they didn't have my service number as G991375, it was NZ991375. Did anybody else in the 1990's have that?
And I must say, we had crappy dog tags.
|
|
|
|
Post by errolmartyn on Sept 21, 2016 11:41:31 GMT 12
From my For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Three: Biographies & Appendices) published in 2008: Airmen (aka Other Airmen or Other Ranks) of the RNZAF were not allotted numbers until September 1938, and direct entry officers not until September 1941. Numbers for airmen enlisting immediately after the outbreak of war bore a letter ‘A’ prefix, while pre-war regulars normally retained their original non-prefixed number. On, or shortly before, 21 August 1940 all numbers were prefixed ‘NZ’ only, although later variations such as NZC, NZT and NZW were introduced. A ‘W’ only prefix was applied to numbers (commencing at 1100) allotted to members of the Women’s Auxiliary Air Force (WAAF) when that Service was created in early 1941. The first two digits of an airman’s number indicate the year in which he enlisted, e.g. NZ421234 attests to enlistment in 1942. Generally speaking, numbers were issued sequentially but there were many exceptions and numerous omissions, especially from 1942 onwards, when the system loosened up considerably. Pre-war Territorial Air Force (TAF) airmen were one such exception, their numbers featuring an additional number prefix to indicate membership of the Wellington (4 prefix), Christchurch (5) or Auckland (6) Squadrons. Thus NZ437020 identified this airman as having joined with the Wellington Territorial Squadron in 1937; though to complicate matters, however, some of the numbers of its personnel were duplicated when allotted a second time, to airmen enlisting in 1943. When numbers for direct entry officers were allotted they started at NZ1001, while those who were commissioned from the ranks retained their original airman’s number. The system was rationalised during 1948-1949, a new number-only series commencing at 70,000 for the regular air force being introduced in January 1949. The series for the Reserve commenced at 130,000, while those undergoing Compulsory Military Training (CMT) during the 1950s were allotted a six-figure number above 300,000. Those who chose to do their CMT with the air force did so as members of the TAF. A formula selected single letter prefix (related to computer usage) was added in 1971, and this system continues to the present day. Personnel transferring from one of the New Zealand Services to another retained their original number. This is a summary Colin Hanson sent me in 1992 of how the prefix letter introduced in 1971 was arrived at and assigned to numbers. Unfortunately no further explanatory notes accompanied it.  Errol |
|
|
|
Post by errolmartyn on Sept 21, 2016 13:19:44 GMT 12
Hi All, I'm a new member from Canada and was hoping someone could assist with a RNZAF service number. I very recently purchased a wartime era wrist watch which has a name and number scratched into the back case of the watch : STEVEN NZ 75510 Any assistance would be very much appreciated, Cheers, Konrad 75510 suggests an enlistment in mid- or late- 1950. Errol |
|
|
|
Post by bobajob on Sept 21, 2016 16:17:37 GMT 12
My Father joined in mid to late 1952 . his number I believe was 76230
|
|
|
|
Post by errolmartyn on Sept 21, 2016 18:38:52 GMT 12
My Father joined in mid to late 1952 . his number I believe was 76230 That would be correct; 76210 was for an enlistment on 6 Jun 52 and 76254 for 11 Jul 52. Errol |
|
|
|
Post by noooby on Sept 21, 2016 18:55:46 GMT 12
Ok, Errol, so I think I figured it out. Take your service number and divide by 23 (the number of letters that were used as prefixes to service numbers). In the case shown, 70181 divided by 23 is 3051 with a remainder of 8 (long division here people! Letter number 8 is J, so the service number 70181 becomes J70181. If you take my service number as 991375, divide that by 23, you get a remainder of 6 which equates to the letter G. My service number is in fact G991375, so the formula works. But I still had NZ991375 on my dog tags, not G991375. I don't know why. And I'm not too bothered about it either  To add.... Our good friend Mr Homewood's service number, when divided by 23, will have a remainder of 12 which is why he had the letter N. Please tell me that works for you Dave! |
|
|
|
Post by camtech on Sept 22, 2016 10:42:27 GMT 12
The reason for the NZ on the dog tags is for international recognition. Dog tags are primarily for use on overseas duties, so the NZ identifies the country of origin. The check letter in this case is immaterial.
I'll dig mine out later and check.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobajob on Sept 22, 2016 12:56:21 GMT 12
While I was in Australia as an Apprentice at Wagga my service number was NZ82984, after I was sent home for remuster I was then 82984. Once the new system came in it was A82984.
|
|
|
|
Post by 30sqnatc on Sept 22, 2016 13:50:34 GMT 12
Ok, Errol, so I think I figured it out. Take your service number and divide by 23 (the number of letters that were used as prefixes to service numbers). In the case shown, 70181 divided by 23 is 3051 with a remainder of 8 (long division here people! Letter number 8 is J, so the service number 70181 becomes J70181. If you take my service number as 991375, divide that by 23, you get a remainder of 6 which equates to the letter G. My service number is in fact G991375, so the formula works. But I still had NZ991375 on my dog tags, not G991375. I don't know why. And I'm not too bothered about it either To add.... Our good friend Mr Homewood's service number, when divided by 23, will have a remainder of 12 which is why he had the letter N. Please tell me that works for you Dave! Works from my check letter 'U' as I have 18 left over. Letter only required when entered it computer. Similarly dog tags are marked 'NZ'. Wonder which bar 'STEVEN NZ 75510' left his/her issue watch to pay for drinks. Getting an issue watch was not an easy process. Paul |
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Sept 22, 2016 14:03:33 GMT 12
It worked for me also. I used the calculator and then multiplied the decimal places by 23.
In their example with 70181
70181/23
= 3051.34782609
.34782609 x 23
= 8.00000007
8 equates to J
|
|
|
|
Post by xbaggy on Sept 22, 2016 21:03:04 GMT 12
So that is how it works. Mine is N82559 which fits the bill as well. Was never explained to us when they added the letter.
|
|
|
|
Post by Radialicious on Sept 22, 2016 22:15:56 GMT 12
S93580 - works for this kid. An interesting piece of history that is sadly unlikely to pop up in a pub quiz.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 22, 2016 23:25:37 GMT 12
N93507 was my service number Nooby. I may have to Google to find out what this "long division" and "remainder" is you speak of. I have a very vague memory of something like it when I was a kid... or you could do the maths and see if it works?
|
|
|
|
Post by jonesy on Sept 22, 2016 23:29:44 GMT 12
Mines G92696....didnt work. It turned out to be a 6 (F), which may explain why a certain word starting with that letter was uttered in my presence :-)
Interestingly enough though...every official number allotted to me during that time ended with the number 6 - Drivers license, passport, tax code, Service number, bank account, even my library card! I was very suspicious about being on a watch list somewhere...
|
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Sept 23, 2016 0:27:33 GMT 12
I think your number is ok Jonesey. The 6 is correct and that equates to 'G' on the chart.
|
|
