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Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 2, 2017 18:54:49 GMT 12
There is always the unintended outcomes when these sort of blanket laws are imposed.
In this case, I see two such outcomes:
- Things that used to happen no longer happen. I flew into an aero club breakfast rally recently. As well as me (in a really boring Cessna) there were some other quite interesting aircraft attending. I commented to one of the host club officials that maybe it would have been a good idea to publicise the event around the wider community and so generate some interest among the locals. He replied "We used to do that, but now if we anticipate more than 100 people attending we must get a council permit, file a traffic plan, hire portaloos, write up a health-and-safety schedule, set out road cones and have car park marshals. All that is just way too much trouble and expense, so we no longer bother". Thus the club possibly misses out on a few new members that they may attract, and the locals miss out on an interesting and fun Sunday morning event. Of course, the H&S pointyheads are happy - no accidents can happen at events that don't take place, so their statistics then look good.
- Things that continue to happen become incredibly expensive. We used to be able to build new low-cost houses for low-income people. Then the do-gooders and the H&S people got involved and said "We'll make this compulsory and you have to do that in a new safer way". However each road cone, each test-and-tag, each piece of scaffolding instead of a ladder has a cost. Sure, each of these items in itself may only incur a modest few dollars, but add up the total extra costs of each and every one of these many 'it'd be nice to have' items included over the last thirty years and they reach an impressive total. So now we cannot build low-cost housing any more. All we can do is either work out ways where the taxpayer has to subsidize such houses in order to make them affordable again, or jack up the prices of many of the houses in a development in order to sell the other few at a loss. Of course, we can say 'make the developers pay' - but the developers actually have no money, they are financed by the banks and the banks won't play any more.
There really is no such thing as free - someone, somewhere is footing the bill.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 2, 2017 21:14:54 GMT 12
When bureaucrats are generating rules that make more work for more bureaucrats they feel they have achieved all. The more red tape they unreel, the more secure their jobs become.
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Post by suthg on Jan 2, 2017 21:40:36 GMT 12
The responsibility for one's safety is now not with the individual - operate/walk/visit at your own risk, businesses could turn a blind eye to the risks and hazards they knew existed; now they have to own up to them in their own territory/plant/land and fix, mitigate, eliminate to save Mr Smith from breaking a leg/electrocuting himself/having hands mutilated in a mincer/bench saw/ etc etc and its not the Supervisor at fault, it goes right to the Principal of the farm/business whatever. It is assumed everyone is a dimwit and 85%+ of all accidents can be avoided with protection/barriers/training etc which the Principal is now legally obliged to provide - and committees/charitable organisations/societies etc are not exempt either. It has become a worldwide trend starting in Europe, then England, Australia and now NZ.
It can surely make it a safer place to live. Enjoy the scenery, the peace and quiet, the freedom to visit beaches and drive in green rural NZ, but obey the rules, speed limits, headlights on - it doesn't cost you anything (always been WOF and rego) but driving in NZ should be safer than it was 10 years ago.
I understand that costs for continuing in PPL have now become prohibitive for most but it is a wealthy mans playground really. And there are cheaper options now too. I know that maintaining an aircraft and having it certified is a lot more expensive and onerous than a car too - probably always has been. Car WOFs are far more stringent and rusty wagons without airbags are nearly eliminated from our roads. The world moves forward (or backwards as some may point out) but changes are a part of life and variety is the spice of life or so they say (but not to be condoned in all aspects of life!).
I have been at work for 34 years and have been through many changes (and different engineering jobs) and safety has made a big change for the better recently. It has made me a better driver I would like to think and consideration for others around on the roads and where we work and walk is more a part of my life now. Brighter colours when cycling, more flashing lights for my own visibility among heavy steel traffic on the roads we share are now also a part of my life.
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Post by Mustang51 on Jan 3, 2017 6:19:22 GMT 12
Two sides to that story and both equally compelling. We have the OH & S Nazis on this side of the Ditch creating problems where none previously existed..... I act as a Principal certifying Authority for a lot of major engineering works and happily wear the high vis and bone dome but when you have to be site inducted six times for the same site it does become tedious and "OTT". However, I too have been subject to crushed fingers on a construction site where more care on the part of others would have prevented that accident. On that same site two were killed in senseless accidents (self induced) that no amount of OH & S would have prevented. I have also had a great mate eviscerated by the prop of an MU.2 freighter and that company maintained night freighters! Fortunately Martin survived that one.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 3, 2017 10:46:21 GMT 12
When bureaucrats are generating rules that make more work for more bureaucrats they feel they have achieved all. The more red tape they unreel, the more secure their jobs become. True. If/when the AAC members get pissed off about all of this and don't bother to go out there and fly, the club would then fold. Therefore the risk of an accident on their operational area is entirely removed and hence the policy has succeeded.
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 3, 2017 10:49:29 GMT 12
I had an installation to do at a residential new-build. The house is complete. There is another tradie on-site, a painter touching up paint and the site-foreman keeping an eye on things. Outside the landscapers are doing their thing. I'm told that I must wear my high-vis vest, hard hat, and steel cap boots - inside on the new carpet. Why? '...it's a construction site' I'm told.
The irony, right across the road the previous week I had a similar installation to do in a quake-damaged now newly-renovated house (landscapers outside) and I worked without a high-vis vest or hard-hat, in my socks while stepping around toys strewn across the new carpet. Horrifyingly, the owners toddlers were inside in their bare feet running around too!
On another site in recent weeks where several apartments were in various stages of completion, therefore many tradies on the construction site, someone was caught by a visiting H&S inspector not wearing their high-vis vest. The whole site was shut down, all contractors ordered to vacate, tools had to be left where they were, and no one allowed back on site until a full investigation had taken place. No more work done for that day.
Where is the balance? It is fast becoming a Nanny state that is producing a generation unable to think for themselves
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Post by craig on Jan 3, 2017 12:20:50 GMT 12
Why would anyone set up a new business in NZ. Better to set up, off shore where labour is cheaper, less bureaucratic BS and prob closer to markets. NZ is too small to be able to exist without foreign exchange coming into the country eg revenue from exported product and tourism. Once the shinny bum pencil pushers have strangled the life out of our economy they will pick up and move somewhere else and do it all over again. In nature that is the definition of a parasite and frankly the name fits.....
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 3, 2017 12:42:06 GMT 12
Sadly Craig, you are absolutely right.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 3, 2017 12:42:53 GMT 12
Although the businesses who manufacture and sell orange traffic cones and high-viz vests must be making a killing. Let me guess, they're all brought in from overseas?
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Post by Mustang51 on Jan 3, 2017 14:19:21 GMT 12
From China no doubt capitalizing on our (Oz and NZ) raw materials......Guess you covered it Craig.......
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 3, 2017 15:12:43 GMT 12
Funnily enough, apparently not. I'm told that the imported road cones are far too lightweight to survive the gentle NZ breezes. Apparently a local firm makes the tough, heavyweight ones that are required to survive in Wellington and other such windy places. On another site in recent weeks where several apartments were in various stages of completion, therefore many tradies on the construction site, someone was caught by a visiting H&S inspector not wearing their high-vis vest. The whole site was shut down, all contractors ordered to vacate, tools had to be left where they were, and no one allowed back on site until a full investigation had taken place. No more work done for that day. and the cost of all that delay, of course, is then inevitably passed on to the poor financially-strapped eventual home buyer.
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Post by baz62 on Jan 3, 2017 15:35:23 GMT 12
is then inevitably passed on to the poor financially-strapped eventual home buyer. Not for us as we have a locked in price, any delays it's all on the poor builder.
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Post by The Red Baron on Jan 3, 2017 15:48:31 GMT 12
Any aircraft flying more than 2 metres off the ground will now require scaffolding to be erected underneath it.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 3, 2017 16:25:05 GMT 12
is then inevitably passed on to the poor financially-strapped eventual home buyer. Not for us as we have a locked in price, any delays it's all on the poor builder. Which is then passed on to the next home buyer.
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 3, 2017 17:54:36 GMT 12
Any aircraft flying more than 2 metres off the ground will now require scaffolding to be erected underneath it. And a safety barrier in front of and around the propeller
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 3, 2017 18:00:10 GMT 12
I wonder how long before pilots will all be required to wear helmets rather than headsets?
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Post by jonesy on Jan 3, 2017 18:35:58 GMT 12
Oh man, such a thorny subject. I work in mining in Western Australia. H&S is massive here, its potentially dangerous work and theres rules for just about EVERYTHING. Now up till recently I really couldnt see sense in this, and frequently mocked a lot of the rules we had, which just seemed over the top.
Whats come as a realisation though is that everyone has a right to go home safe. The rules are there usually because some numpty has been ignorant of safety or deliberately chose to carry out a dangerous activity and has harmed himself or others. Its really sad as its taken away the need for using common sense and situational awareness.
I dont know much about the recreational aviation sector, and how all this legislation affects you guys, but I'll tell ya what - theres nothing more heartbreaking than dealing with trauma or death in the workplace. H&S is a strong part of my role as an industrial medic and even though its taken me decades of carrying out slightly unsafe work practices to realise this its here now and you just cant fight it.
Take the mickey out of overzealous H&S inspectors etc absolutely, but just be safe out there guys!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 3, 2017 19:01:47 GMT 12
Whilst I think a healthy and safe working environment is a must for everyone, I just wish government and private entities would put more emphasis on the teaching and promoting of actual common sense and logic, rather than stifling people with rule upon rule to prevent things that were probably never going to happen anyway.
I wonder what Aristotle, the father of common sense and logic, would think of today's world where kids these days are being mollycoddled, shielded and zoned into "safe areas" to protect their feelings. The opportunity to learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of others, and grow as a person from that, is so diminished that the population is surely heading for a new dark age where people can no longer think and fend for themselves practically without fear of hurting someone else's feelings or breaching some petty regulation or other.
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Post by starr on Jan 3, 2017 20:31:57 GMT 12
Dave, your comments are spot on. Unfortunately the words Common Sense seem to have disappeared from the English language. Some of the H&S rules etc are a good thing, but a lot just do not make sense. I am glad I am no longer part of the Aviation industry. I don't think I would be able to stand it.
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Post by eieio on Jan 4, 2017 6:39:54 GMT 12
Not much health and safety on the roads last two weeks , every idiot is out there by the toll. Recently towed an unwieldly item of machinery [from Dargaville to Te awamutu] 440 km without seeing an enforcement vehicle ,was actually 100mm wider than legal. As for common sense..bang on Dave
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