Spitfire TE330 - BBMF

[Dave Homewood]

I didn't realise till just now that the Spitfire TE330 which is owned by the Subritzky's at Albany, North Shore, formerly was owned by and flew with the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight from 1957-1959.

I wonder if there are any other kiwi connections with the BBMF? Such as, did any New Zealanders ever fly as pilots on the BBMF?

Or have any of the many different colour schemes on their aircraft ever depicted an aircraft flown by a Kiwi?

[petera]

Who said TE330 was ex BBMF?

[flyjoe180]

www.warbirdregistry.org/spitregistry/spitfire-te330.html

No mention of BBMF here but TE330 is down as having participated in a Battle of Britain fly past in September 1957.

[flyjoe180]

BBMF chronology shows Dave is correct:

October 1957 - 3 x Mk XVI Spitfires join the Flight (TE330, TE476 and SL674).

www.bbmf.co.uk/history.html

[Dave Homewood]

Yes, that link Joe posted it is where I found the info.

[petera]

flyjoe180 said:

BBMF chronology shows Dave is correct:

October 1957 - 3 x Mk XVI Spitfires join the Flight (TE330, TE476 and SL674).

www.bbmf.co.uk/history.html

There are several mistakes in the current BBMF brochure chronology.

It wasn't SL674 but SL574 for starters.

SL674 was then the Biggin Hill Chapel memorial Spitfire.

There is nothing on the movement cards for these three aircraft that suggests that they were allotted to the BBF in the year 1957. All were allotted to Station Flight Biggin Hill in 1958

TE330 was issued to Station Flight North Weald on 3rd March 1958 and was restored to flight status by the same team looking after the embryonic BBF. It was on its way to the US by July 1958.

There was a press presentation on 2nd July 1958 at RAF Odiham but I have no references to TE330 being displayed other than here. TE476 and SL574 plus the Hurricane performed these duties and of course there were far fewer functions then. I would be pretty confident that that 1958 was the first display year with the Mk XVI's.

PeterA

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Peter. That's a pity that the BBMF themselves seem to have their own history wrong, but not too much a surprise as our own Red Checkers team's publicity perpetuates incorrect facts and myths every year too.

Did the two Mk XVI's that did fly with the BBF both crash? If so, did their wrecks survive?

[flyjoe180]

What source did that info come from (out of interest)? This site on the aircraft of the Battle of Britain film has the following history for SL574:

www.sonsofdamien.co.uk/SL574.htm

Spitfire Mk.LFXVIe SL574

Squadrons: no crest.

Type: VS361

Engine: Packard Merlin 266

Serial/Reg. SL574

Sqdn - code: EAAS – FG-GU (Empire Air Armament School), CGS – FJW-W (Central Gunnery School), 102FRS (Fighter Refresher School), No.3 CAACU – C (Civilian Anti Aircraft Cooperation Unit), No.11 Gp CF – 41(Communications Flight), 133 – MD-T

Role in film: Static, Currently: display

History

Built at Castle Bromwich, SL574 was delivered to No.6 MU Brize Norton on 14th August 1945, and placed in store for the next two years, emerging to be issued to the Empire Air Armament School at Manby on 30th September 1947. Here it flew, with the code “FG-GU” until 28th October 1948, when a Cat.B flying accident occurred which necessitated the attentions of a party from No.34 MU Montford Bridge, between 3rd and 9th December. Restored to full health SL574 rejoined the EAAS on 10th December, remaining on charge until 19th July 1949, when it was transferred to the Central Gunnery School and assumed the code “FJW-W”, later replaced with “FJT-W”. Its stint with the CGS was relatively short and on 22nd November SL574 was transferred to No.29 MU High Ercall for storage.

16th April 1951 saw the aircraft placed on charge with NO.102 Fighter Refresher School, where it remained until 12th October, when it moved to No.33 MU at Lyneham for another spell of storage. Removed from store after two years SL574 was allocated to No.3 CAACU at Exeter on 15th October 1953 and coded “C”; this posting lasted for almost three years until 25th June 1956, when it was returned to No.5 MU and re-classified as non-effective stock on 16th August. Its spell at Exeter had been interrupted during August 1955 for an appearance as “RV214/QV-R” in the film Reach for the sky.

Transferred to No.32 MU at St Athan on 16th March 1957, the aircraft was prepared for use in the 1957 Royal Tournament and Bath Tattoo. It was classified as Cat.5 (ground instruction) on 20th February 1958, and issued to Biggin Hill for instructional purposes, but was, surprisingly, restored to flying condition and allotted to the station Flights of both Biggin Hill and North Weald on 4th March! Within a few months, on 16th May 1958 SL574 was on charge with the Communications Flight of No.11 Group and based at Martlesham Heath and was coded “41”. A wheels up landing was suffered at Martlesham on 28th May 1959, and SL574 was repaired by a party from No.71 MU Bicester, the initial Cat.5 damage having been reclassified as Cat.3R on 30th June. The Spitfire was back on charge on 31st July, but on 20th September AVM H J Maguire was flying it over South London and suffered an engine failure. A forced landing had to be made on a cricket pitch at Bromley, Kent and 574 was relegated to exhibition status following a further attempt by No.71 MU to repair the damage. The cricket stumps damaged in the forced landing were mounted in a glass case and are held by the Air Historical branch of the MoD. This incident is interesting as it precipitated the decision to ban the Spitfire and Hurricane from the then annual Battle of Britain Day London flypast.

With SL574 grounded it was repaired and issued to HQ No.11 Group (Fighter Command) at Bentley Priory on 30th November

This source does not include any information about SL574 joining the BOBMF or its predecessor?

[petera]

admin said:

Thanks Peter. That's a pity that the BBMF themselves seem to have their own history wrong, but not too much a surprise as our own Red Checkers team's publicity perpetuates incorrect facts and myths every year too.

Did the two Mk XVI's that did fly with the BBF both crash? If so, did their wrecks survive?

Both pranged wheels up.

SL574 never flew again after its prang. Gate guard various, BoB film static and finally swapped with a P-51 by the RAF Museum. Currently in the Aeropace Museum in San Diego.

TE476 followed a similar path but was restored to flight for Kermit Weeks in 1995.

PeterA

[petera]

flyjoe180 said:

What source did that info come from (out of interest)?

This source does not include any information about SL574 joining the BOBMF or its predecessor?

Prime source. MoD movement card documents transcribed by myself...and oh yes...I was there in 1957.

What we now know as the BBMF or the Memorial Flight wasn't called that officially back in 1957. The were just aircraft allotted to Station Flight x or y.

The Flight is considered to have started/originated in June 1957 with the arrival at Biggin Hill of three Mk XIX Spitfires ex THUM flight. Three Mk XVI Spitfires that had been ground run at the Earls Court Tournament were gathered along the way together with several other Spitfires for spares recovery, the whole set up moving to Martlesham Heath via North Weald in 1958, but losing a Mk XIX or two in the process. Here basically the historics were an offshoot of 11 Group Communication Flight.

PeterA

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Peter. I never doubted you for a moment.

[flyjoe180]

Cheers, you must have a brilliant memory indeed!

[Dave Homewood]

Joe, Peter is probably the most renowned expert on individual Spitfire histories in the world and indeed has a superb memory as well as a superb archive of data and photos. He has been involved in many recoveries and restorations of Spits around the world. And he's a thoroughly bloody nice chap too.

[flyjoe180]

Handy to know, now we know where to ask our Spitfire questions

[petera]

Dave & Joe,

I am delighted to correct and add a little to my posts on this subject.

Today 'Battle of Britain Memorial Flight - 50 years of flying' by Jarrod Cotter dropped through my mail box from Amazon. I ordered it about four months ago.

Well TE330 certainly was part of the Historic Aircraft flight in 1957 despite the aircraft movement cards.

It seems that Wing Commander Peter Thompson, Station Commander at Biggin Hill was concerned that the embryonic Spitfires, three mk XIX's, arriving 11 July 1957 were not 'fighters'.

He had noted that, unconnected to Biggin or the HAF, three Mk XVI Spitfires had appeared at the Royal Tournament at Earls Courts in June 1957, one of which, TE330, taxied across the stadium to the delight of the crowds. I remember hearing reports of this from classmates who had attended.

Thompson took immediate steps to secure these three aircraft for the flight and was indeed successful. Notwithstanding how long that exercise would normally take, and the paperwork 'drag' confirms that, and aware of the current time it takes to get a Spitfire up to airworthy condition, flying in 1957 seemed out of the question to me, but I was wrong.

Thompson Log book clearly shows air tests on 10/11 September followed by rehearsals for the BoB on the 12th and the London Flypast on the 15th September. Close run but achieved.

To some dismay the aircraft was allotted to be given to the American in early 1958 prompting speedy work to get the other two XVI's SL574 and TE476 up and running through 1958.

So Dave TE330 in New Zealand can be justifiably accredited as being ex HAF/BBMF with what seems to be just the one public airing prior to the hand over ceremony at RAF Odiham.

PeterA

[flyjoe180]

Great info, thanks. You must have a wealth of information at your fingertips! It is a shame the BOBMF can't write it's own chronology correctly. I wonder if they are even aware of the errors in their brochure?

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for that additional info Peter, it's much appreciated.

[Kereru]

Photos from 2005.





Colin

[Dave Homewood]

That's a beautiful aircraft, isn't it? What a pity we haven't seen it in NZ skies. I wonder if we ever will.