RNZAF PV-1 Ventura survivor....

[agalbraith]

Hi guys

Just thought I would throw the question out there about Ventura NZ4522 that still survives at Talasea. I know there have been many trips out to her over the years to inspect her and remove parts for the MOTAT RB-34 Lexington.

But has anyone given any serious thought to saving this historic combat vet? I know it probably sounds like a stupid question, but surely she is worthy of saving?

I recently saw a photo of her taken last year and she still looks pretty good. I had a friend go on a tramping holiday a couple of years back and he took pics all over her(not the ones I have just uploaded) inside & out and she actually still looked worthy of saving.

I did once hear that she was offered to the RNZAF but dont know how true that is.............. anyone else know more?






Sorry I dont know where the photos came from, but I see the name of the photograper on one.

[vs]

A similar example would be the 4 or so Boston/Havoc bombers the RAAF museum pulled out of the jungles around the Pacific. The results are amazing! It would make an important adition to our air force museums collection. But after reading that they turned down a 727 and maybe this...I imagine we will never see one here. I am sure that the SAAF museum have quite a few examples in storage....perhaps that would be an easy oportunity if the right deal could be struck

[Dave Homewood]

It would be great to see it brought back to NZ, but I think it would either have to be part of a major Army Engineer and RNZAF transport, and possibly HMNZS Canterbury exercise, or it would require major sponsorship just to retrieve it. And it would be far beyond the means of the RNZAF Museum's funding to restore it these days. Plus look at the hassle that erupted over the recovery of B-17 Swamp Ghost last year. It's still in limbo.

But definately it would be worth seeing it recovered and restored before it's too late. There are also a few RNZAF Hudson wrecks up that way, one of which is almost as intact as this Ventura.

Would you please be able to post your friend's recent photos?

[Dave Homewood]

Actually when yopu consider the likes of the RNZAF Museum's Anson and Hudson which both lay in paddocks as chook houses, they could do a great restoration on it if only they had the money.

But then look at the Dauntless that No. 3 Squadron recovered, not only has it remained untouched since it's not even on display. ;(

[vs]

If you look at the US Navy museums reserve collection which I guess are in storage, they have quite a number of dauntless which were recovered from the lakes.....would be a whole lot easier than restoring that machine! Mind you I guess you would need to come up with something to swap it for.

The thing with these wrecks is that they need to be moved out of the elements ASAP. A good example is the B17 which was pulled out of PnG. I remember reading that the water coming in and out was doing a lot of damage to the floor structure.

[agalbraith]

I agree I think she is still salvageable. I was in Espiritu Santo a couple of years ago looking at a few wrecks etc(my wife left me to it 8^) and it is actually quite suprising how good these airframes actually still are. We went away with another couple (he is an aircraft engineer for Air NZ) and we both commented on their condition. Obviously some are pretty stuffed. But some of the ones in the jungle get covered in mosses, cobwebs etc and look worse han they actually are. One Birdcage Corsair on Vila was sitting on her belly on a mangrove swamp with the sea washing in and out of her for 60 odd years and much of the wing structure was in good shape still. Another Birdcage one had her fin poking out of the water and was essentially complete. We snorkeled and waded around her and when you rubbed the skin, it was still pretty shiny. There are issues involved with aircraft in saltwater though, I think they turn into alluminium oxide! Let alone getting them out of the country as you mention.

Anyway, I guess they are destined to rot away to nothing, and I dont know how you would even begin to get the ball rolling with the 'powers that be' to salvage them. I guess you would have to be in the armed forces to make it happen.

Well our friends liked it so much over there he has just got a job working for Air Vanuatu as one of their engineers, looking after their ATR and their new 737 800 they are getting in the new year. Maybe it will be easier for someone living there to find out more?

Oh well, sorry for the rant. I just had to vent my frustration as to what was heppening to some of our Air Force history

Cheers

[Dave Homewood]

Last year I met a young English guy who had been in the Royal Marine Commandoes, so feared nothing. He had then gone to live in deepest darkest Guadalcanal as a diver. He is also a big aircraft enthusiast. He said after living there in this town for months and getting to know some locals really well, they decided to tell him that they knew of wrecks that no-one had touched since the war. The scrappers and the collectors had missed them and only the locals knew of them, and were keen to keep it that way. They told him they knew of around 100 wrecks in their region. He was sceptical but then they decided to take him and show him some. He said they took him to see a Zero that was in near perfect condition considering its predicament. He swore to keep the sites secret so they didn't lose their treasures. But it goes to show there is more out there than the Tallichets and scrappers of this world found.

[beagle]

alas, we cannot see the wings but the fuselage looks pretty good. The new HMNZS Canterbury would be perfect for bringing this back in one piece if it hold during transport to the ship.
money money money, just do it !!!!!!!!

[agalbraith]

Hiya Beagle

Yes mate, she would be perfect. I saw an aerial photo of her taken last year on the net and they looked very much in tact.

It will be a while before I can get those other photos Dave as he is a builder and is working on his own place between jobs. So them along with lots of the wife/childrens things are mostly still packed away. But I will get them! Unfortunately he didnt get a digital camera until just recently so these are from negs.

I wonder how much it would cost to bring her back??

[beagle]

The military surely could do it for an exercise, and maybe some sponsorship from the govt would help.
Once we got it home, which I cannot see costing too much by using our military resourses, at least it would be here and I am sure there would be plenty of people wanting to work on it for free.

[agalbraith]

I agree, and surely there must be some sort of grant available to preserve some of our history?

Am I going off half cocked here??? I might get on the blower this week and see if I can find out who to talk to and if anyone knows the full story behind the possible recovery/ownership.

I dont expect to get any more than than brick walls and people passing me off as a nutter/time waster...............maybe I am? But what harm can a couple of phone calls make? And if I get the door slammed in my face, then I know at least I tried.

What do you reakon??

[Dave Homewood]

Go for it Anthony. Maybe one of the really go-ahead musuems like the AHC or the Ashburton Aviation musuem could get behind it, and obined with a Defence Forces exercise, could see an important aircraft returned to NZ.

Maybe there's a rich benefactor within the remaining members of the General Reconnaissance Association?

It's well worth asking everyone. Among the no's there may be a yes. Helen Clark is also Minister of Heritage and fully supports the AHC at Omaka....

And a big defence exercise like this could be a great bit of publicity for their recruitment drive.

[corsair67]

Some info from ADF Serials -


NZ4522 5535 PV-1 Bu34645.

Assembled at Oahu and BOC with Unit 12, Ohakea on 10 August 1943. To No.2 GR Squadron, Ohakea by September 1943. To No.3 Squadron, Bougainville. Crash landed at Talasea, New Britain on 09 September 1944 after being hit by enemy fire on a mission over Rabaul and written off. Flight Lieutenant F. Thomas, Flying Officer G. Shanks, Warrant Officer G. Millar and Sergeant R. Budd uninjured and later flown back to their base. During 1972-1973 parts were salvaged from the wreck for use in the restoration of NZ4600 by MOTAT.

[Dave Homewood]

There's an article in a Wings magazine about that recovery of parts for Motat, in a late 1970's edition I think

[chinapilot]

See it's acquired some interesting nose art since I saw it in 1971... :-)

[agalbraith]

Hi Gents

Just thought you all might like an update on how its going.

I seem to have made a ton of phone calls with quite a positive response (actually much better than I expected....some quite enthusiastic)so far. I seem to be working up the chain at the moment. I had a friend recently mention that he had heard that scrappies were in the islands pulling planes out to melt down. I dont know how true this is but it has made me more determined to get this plane home where it belongs.

Interestingly one person at Airforce Public Relations today said it may be worth contacting Phil Goff (our defence minister for those outside NZ)direct. I wasnt sure at first but I gave it some more thought to it this arvo and wondered if it would be good publicity for them to counter act the Skyhawk sale fiasco.

I think due to the sensitive nature of recovering planes from the islands, the best way to approach this is through govt sources.

Please give me your thoughts and opinions, good or bad. I am kinda flying blind here

Cheers
Anthony

[Bruce]

That sounds promising, keep at it Anthony.

[agalbraith]

Thanks Mate, will do!

[Dave Homewood]

It cannot hurt to contact Phil Goff. If anything, NZ ministerial interest may actually have some sway in stopping it being scrapped even if not returned to NZ.

His contact details are:
Email: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Does anyone know if any of the crew of this aircraft are still alive?

[agalbraith]

Brilliant Dave

I am compiling an email at the moment with photographs. I think that is a great idea. I will see what can be done to contact the old crew.

Keep the ideas coming!

Cheers
Anthony