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Post by planewriting on Dec 16, 2017 16:52:43 GMT 12
Dave, Ref oversized roundels etc. All you have to do is to look at some of the pics of the earlier P-47s. I distinctly remember one with four HUGE wing stars and bars. Guessing he did not want to be mistaken somehow for an FW190. I had a close look at the roundels today and I am convinced they are play ground ones. There was tell tale evidence that they were painted over the top of the target towing yellow scheme from the last stages of its service life.
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Post by chbessexboy on Dec 16, 2017 18:00:39 GMT 12
Those wouldn't have been done by a council worker but I am sure that they painted the non-descript green all over everything. From memory the council painted white roundels on the wings to go with the band around the cowl and the wing-tips. '39 arrived at Havelock North in yellow target-tug livery. The council overpainted it in grey with white roundels as stated above.
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Post by delticman on Dec 17, 2017 21:52:53 GMT 12
Yes that is probably quite true Baz. Interestingly a load of our RNZAF Avengers were handed over to the Fleet Air Arm when we were finished with them, and Ray Deerness has found evidence that some of them actually got all the way to Britain. As Dave mentioned my name again, I had better explain the above. I have always been interested in what has happened to our aircraft, mainly civil but also military, hence I watched for the A4K's going on to the US register etc. On military stuff we can pick up "follow ons" on www.adf-gallery.com.au/First, the SBD as they were only on loan from the US Marines. I guess the USM were out of advanced trainers and I saw somewhere that one had been recovered from Lake Michigan. Several aircraft were lost off the old paddle steamers that had been converted to aircraft carriers for training purposes. One has been restored using parts off the SBD that was sold from Nelson some years ago. Going back a few years ago N670AM appeared in California and that is supposed to be ex NZ5062, RNZAF markings were seen in paint strip down. So it was back in the San Diego area. Looking closer at www.joebaugher.com/navy_serials/thirdseries4.html, Bu36910 (ex NZ5052) it crashed 270944 Amchitka Alaska and Bu36862 (ex NZ5046) was destroyed, 030545 at Noumea. Looking at the Avengers, for years I did wonder about the Avengers returned to the USN in the islands. I didn't think they would be dumped as like the Dauntless, there would have been a shortage of front line or front line trainers and there were far from being outdated. It appears that some of these aircraft were sent to Lockheed to be refurbished for carrier use and four were supplied to the Royal Navy. The RN got four batches in VLxxx series, 401-410,432-461 and 501-510. These all arrived in Renfrew, Glasgow in July 1945 and placed in storage. No record of scrapping has been found. I later found that some others that were near Renfrew were dumped at sea. Anyone ever seen anything about dumping off UK? NZ2508 to VL405 but could be VL504 NZ2538 to VL507. NZ2545 to VL508. NZ2546 to VL509. No further information on others in US Navy service. If they had been written off in a crash, they would have been listed in joebaugher. From recent comments, I'm guessing that the aircraft for the Royal Navy that left in 1945 for Australia were all target tugs and I guess the RN might have been short of that type as I thinking the FAA were still returning aircraft to active service at that time from the Sydney area. Of course most new aircraft were dumped. Perhaps the ex RNZAF TBF's were still with New Zealand serials were the last aircraft be dumped off Sydney. There is not a lot about the FAA aircraft in Sydney during the war. The activities at GM must be a good read somewhere. www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/MONABS/Nabberley-1.html#.WjY7YVJlLL8Finally, that P40L, NZ3074, returned to 42-10433, w/o 290144 at Luke AAS,AZ then surveyed at Rome AAS, NY on 020244.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Dec 18, 2017 15:50:45 GMT 12
Regarding the Avengers returned to the USN they were (from the AF380 register) as follows: NZ2508, 2513, 2520, 2524, 2525, 2528, 2529, 2531, 2532, 2534, 2537, 2538, 2540, 2543, 2545, 2546 All were passed over (for recording purposes at Espiritu Santos in October 1944 Regarding the issues to the FAA, I concur that they were all probably Target Tow conversions
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Post by tbf25o4 on Dec 18, 2017 15:52:07 GMT 12
Regarding the SBD NZ5062, I photographed the aircraft at Chino in August 1980 and the RNZAF markings were easily identified under the fading paint scheme
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Post by agalbraith on Dec 18, 2017 16:28:04 GMT 12
That would be interesting to see if possible?? Great info developing on here
Cheers Anthony
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Post by ZacYates on Dec 18, 2017 17:51:13 GMT 12
Disappointingly my grandfather, Rhys Bartle, recalls very little about the Avenger. From Facebook:
The work consisted in securing anything loose, like hatch covers, and riveting covers over any holes, so little fingers could not get caught. We painted any new work with metal primer, but I do not remember painting the bodywork.....
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Post by kiwi285 on Dec 21, 2017 9:20:18 GMT 12
We finally removed the last of the skin on the top surface of the tail plane and this is the sight that greeted us. Trying to straighten and flatten crushed ali when all it wants to do is tin can back to where it was. We managed to get the worst of it out and are looking at riveting in reinforcing pieces to hold them straight. When Nigel Godfrey was over the other weekend he suggested a small easily made tool to reshape the flanges in the lightening holes. This was made in a few minutes and works so well for what it is. IMG_6257 by Mike Feisst, on Flickr IMG_6258 by Mike Feisst, on Flickr IMG_6259 by Mike Feisst, on Flickr
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Post by kiwi285 on Dec 21, 2017 9:32:22 GMT 12
This is the tool I alluded to above. The two hacksaw slots are used to fit over the metal and then it is moved to straighten the metal. Certainly not sophisticated but it works and straighten the flange material certainly helps to flatted the rib material. Clever people think of these simple gadgets. Metal working tool by Mike Feisst, on Flickr
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Post by kiwi285 on Dec 22, 2017 13:50:08 GMT 12
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Post by kiwi285 on Dec 22, 2017 16:04:31 GMT 12
Well the year is almost at its end so I will wish you all a great festive season and I hope that 2018 is kind to you all. And a thought to all of us crazy internet people. cartoon 2 by Mike Feisst, on Flickr
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Post by kiwi285 on Dec 31, 2017 16:39:16 GMT 12
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Post by baz62 on Jan 1, 2018 10:07:24 GMT 12
Happy New Year and look forward to more progress posts on NZ2539! Well done to everyone up there.
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Post by kiwi285 on Jan 3, 2018 15:08:28 GMT 12
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 3, 2018 15:13:32 GMT 12
Simply, wow!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 3, 2018 15:59:46 GMT 12
You guys are flying in this restoration! Great stuff!
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Post by baz62 on Jan 3, 2018 17:45:48 GMT 12
Great pun Dave! Yes what great progress, that cockpit looks great and the centre section is certainly a great improvement.
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Post by Mustang51 on Jan 3, 2018 18:44:23 GMT 12
Fantastic progress indeed. Those crushed ribs look like ribs 5 and 6 in the Dog tailplane. It is never meant to be "lifted" by getting it on your back as there are lift tubes both sides of the fuselage and LARGE stencils stating "No Lift" on the top of the tailplane but despite all of this my tailplane ribs same location both sides were crushed from below by meatheads. Grrrrrrrr. I'm amazed this is going out. Brand new laptop - never used one before - and my fingers are like legs of lamb so hit three keys each stroke.......I'll become accustomed eventually I guess. Technology..... bah, humbug !
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Post by kiwi285 on Jan 3, 2018 20:57:21 GMT 12
Thank guys - the team really appreciate the positive comments.
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Post by kiwi285 on Jan 5, 2018 15:38:41 GMT 12
Just talking today about the repairs to the tailplane and looking at the photos there are some small channel section strengthener's bent up from about .025 thou material. The ribs that had the strengtheners on them did not buckle with the weight but the others did. You wouldn't have thought that such a small piece of aluminium would have made such a difference. A look at some of the photos will show this.
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