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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 9, 2019 19:42:18 GMT 12
According to the nzdf.serials site, former Tonga P-40E-1 NZ3092 (ET441) supposedly crshed at Guadalcanal and was written off the books there at Guadalcanal. However this set off alarm bells for me, as it's a well known thing that the P-40E's never went any further north than Espiritu Santo. In fact David Duxbury reiterated this just the other day when we were chatting at Wigram. So I looked up Archway and it's listing for the accident report states the accident was at Espiritu Santo. www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21075341I just thought I'd bring this up to the attention of Les and others, in case a) there reall was a P-40E that got as far as 'Cactus', or b) the NZDF Serials site needs an amendment. Anyone got any input or gems of wisdom about this please? www.adf-serials.com.au/nz-serials/nzkittyhawk.htm |
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Post by camtech on Sept 9, 2019 20:18:10 GMT 12
Thanks, Dave. Very timely as I have had the Kittyhawk page sent thru a couple of days ago to do some minor amendments. I'll cross check that info over the next few days before posting the amendments. Be good to have the Tongan codes to tie them in as well.
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Post by camtech on Sept 9, 2019 20:29:30 GMT 12
According to the nzdf.serials site, former Tonga P-40E-1 NZ3092 (ET441) supposedly crshed at Guadalcanal and was written off the books there at Guadalcanal. However this set off alarm bells for me, as it's a well known thing that the P-40E's never went any further north than Espiritu Santo. In fact David Duxbury reiterated this just the other day when we were chatting at Wigram. So I looked up Archway and it's listing for the accident report states the accident was at Espiritu Santo. www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21075341I just thought I'd bring this up to the attention of Les and others, in case a) there reall was a P-40E that got as far as 'Cactus', or b) the NZDF Serials site needs an amendment. Anyone got any input or gems of wisdom about this please? www.adf-serials.com.au/nz-serials/nzkittyhawk.htmYou are quite correct re the accident location as quoted by the accident report. Regrettably, a number of similar errors appear on NZDF Serials, and it usually requires some eagle eyed enthusiast to pick them up. The best thing is that we have an NZDF Serials page - thanks to Ivan Prince and others. The hardest thing is to keep the site updated to ensure that our aviation history is preserved accurately. All assistance is gratefully accepted. Email me : - les.billcliff@nzdf-serials.co.nz |
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Post by Mustang51 on Sept 10, 2019 9:49:19 GMT 12
This is not just restricted to NZ aircraft. If you take a look at the Status cards for RAAF Mustangs you will find that a whole bunch of them have the same entries at the end and it is certainly just a "paperwork" exercise to close them off rather than accurately portraying what actually happened. Very frustrating all these years later for historians and interested parties.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 10, 2019 10:18:14 GMT 12
Thanks Les. Ivan and the team did great work to set up the site, an invaluable resource as a first go-to point to check what they have on specific aeroplanes. And you do a great job keeping up with the aditions and corrections. Well done!
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Post by planewriting on Sept 10, 2019 13:14:54 GMT 12
What are we to believe? Archway or the RNZAF? According to the RNZAF "Doomsday" book NZ3092 crashed at Guadacanal on 1 October 1943 when attached to 18 Squadron. ref F.34.I.V. No 587.8 The location matches ADF serials. According to the "Doomsday" book there were numerous P-40s lost operating from Guadacanal. Is the "well known thing" therefore true?
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Post by ErrolC on Sept 10, 2019 13:50:54 GMT 12
No given source is to be believed in all instances. People make mistakes, people sometimes do whatever they can get away with to 'finish' the job. In rare cases, falsify records to make themselves look better.
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Post by camtech on Sept 10, 2019 15:30:45 GMT 12
What are we to believe? Archway or the RNZAF? According to the RNZAF "Doomsday" book NZ3092 crashed at Guadacanal on 1 October 1943 when attached to 18 Squadron. ref F.34.I.V. No 587.8 The location matches ADF serials. According to the "Doomsday" book there were numerous P-40s lost operating from Guadacanal. Is the "well known thing" therefore true? Peter, in this case I would back Archway, as their entry is based on the actual detail in the accident report, as against an erk writing up the accident report and file. Often an accident report is filed from the next location of the unit or pilot concerned. You are correct regarding entries in the "Doomsday" book - a significant number have been proven to be at least questionable. It takes some determined research to confirm the EXACT details to some of these incidents/accidents/events. |
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Post by camtech on Sept 10, 2019 15:33:02 GMT 12
No given source is to be believed in all instances. People make mistakes, people sometimes do whatever they can get away with to 'finish' the job. In rare cases, falsify records to make themselves look better. Quite correct Errol. Anyone undertaking serious genealogy research would relate stories of inaccuracies, misquotes and "bending of the truth" that can be found in that area alone. |
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Post by planewriting on Sept 10, 2019 15:36:34 GMT 12
Just had a closer look at the Doomsday book. In all, I found 37 instances of P-40s being lost for whatever reason on operations out of Guadacanal but only NZ3092 is an "E". What is peculiar about that particular listing is that it is the only one that does not list a fate so it seems it was written up with minimal information on hand.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 10, 2019 16:23:25 GMT 12
I was not saying P-40's though Peter, I was saying P-40E's. Yes lots of later models went to and crashed at/from Guadalcanal.
That is very interesting about the Doomsday Book, I just looked that up myself and see it defiitely states "G-CANAL". So this is where Ivan will have gotten that mistaken info from as he used this book as a source.
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Post by planewriting on Sept 10, 2019 17:06:08 GMT 12
Thanks Dave, I did not notice straight away that it was the "E" model only being discussed. An interesting anomally I did pick up though was differing dates against two P-40s in a collision! NZ3053 30 June 43 and NZ3078 on 30 July 43. Given the write off date was mid July I would say 30 July is wrong.
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