RNZAF starter/accumulator trolley colour

[hbpencil]

Hi all,

I'm colouring a photo from the Air Force Museum website (taken at Ardmore in 1945) and in the background is a wheel which I suspect belongs to a starter trolley (I can only see the wheel so I can't be totally sure). So I'm wondering, what colour(s) did the RNZAF paint said trolleys?

As an aside, and purely out of curiosity, could the Goodyear built -1D Corsairs use a starter trolley seeing as they used an electric starter rather than the cartridge system of the Vought built Corsairs?

Cheers

[oj]

I don't know about the colour in 1945, but when I was serving at Ohakea 1963-1967 they were all "Ground Equipment Yellow".
I painted lots of it. I worked in both the Ground Equipment Bay and the Battery Room.

[camtech]

I can recall some older units with wheels painted in the same blue/grey as the MT vehicles, but with yellow battery boxes.

[hbpencil]

Ok, thanks guys. The wheel of the trolley makes me think it's an RAF type of trolley and from I could find they painted theirs either blue or green in WW2, so I might go with blue.

[30sqnatc]

Your first post made me have look at Corsair photos both domestic and in the Pacific but I could not find a single photo showing a battery trolley even when they showed a line of aircraft that had just started up.

[baz62]

Aug 3, 2021 21:01:22 GMT 12 30sqnatc said:

Your first post made me have look at Corsair photos both domestic and in the Pacific but I could not find a single photo showing a battery trolley even when they showed a line of aircraft that had just started up.

Didn't they have cartridge starters? That would explain it.

[camtech]

F4U-1 were cartridge, F4U-1D and FG-1D were electric (reference - Pacific Corsair)

[Dave Homewood]

And some at Ardmore were started with ropes.

[davidd]

Despite what it states in "Pacific Corsairs" (and yes, I know, I contributed to this publication, although mainly to check hard facts on aircraft losses, correct spelling of names, etc.), took it for granted that technical specification details of aircraft type should have been very easy to obtain in many publications, on-line, etc., and therefore only worthy of a cursory "once-over". However, after seeing this publication quoted as a source for the type of engine started fitted to various models of the Corsair, I decided to check on a particular file in my possession titled "Loose Minute", created by a certain (un-named) Flight Lieutenant at Air Department, and dated 1st May 1946, and addressed to the Director of Equipment.

Purpose of this "Minute" was to provide a reasonably comprehensive survey of all current RNZAF aircraft types at this time, and detail any differences between normal "standard" aircraft, as well as any modification programmes which might be underway, and any variations in equipment fitted to particular individual aircraft for specific purposes. The main thrust of the "Loose Minute" however was to match what was actually available (most aircraft were, in fact, already in some type of storage, mostly at Rukuhia, Hobsonville, Woodbourne, Taieri, and other, lesser locations) with the arrangements being made to set up the immediate post-war air force, which would obviously be but a very pale shadow of its former self.

Under the heading of "Corsair FG1 Aircraft" (which should have had the suffix "D" added) it was noted that the existing fleet of 59 FG-1Ds, was to form a large part of the planned postwar fleet of 80 Corsairs, the only fighter type to be retained, apart from the 30 P-51D Mustangs, the future of which was by now seriously in doubt.

Originally it had been thought that, following our failure to convince the Americans that we did not want the brand-new Mustangs, they might in fact be ideal to enable the RNZAF to fulfill our recently accepted obligation to provide a complete fighter squadron for Japanese occupation duties. However, as this squadron had to be provided in fairly short order, and the RNZAF technically knew practically nothing about this aircraft type (and no spare parts backup had arrived in this country), that this was probably not such a good idea. So these aircraft were put into temporary storage at Hobsonville, which left the Corsairs as the only remaining candidates.

It was not explained why the RNZAF needed a post-war fleet of 80 Corsairs (which seems slightly excessive to me), but as these aircraft were generally fairly new, and in hand, it was easier to retain a larger number, which could always be cut back should the Government not agree to operate that many on an ongoing basis. It seems that a fairly generous allowance had been made for attrition aircraft, a lesson learned in the recent war.

It was noted that the Goodyear Corsairs had been provided as attrition aircraft to keep our fighter squadrons operational for another six months or so into 1945 until a later type could be secured. Thus the 59 FG-1Ds plus the best 21 of the surviving F4U-1Ds constituted the post-war Corsair fleet, to be used to equip No. 14 Squadron in Japan, plus No. 15 Squadron at Ardmore which was to provide local defence, as well as refresher and/or conversion training for the squadron in Japan. However the government did not think that a local defence squadron could be justified, so this unit morphed into the Central Fighter Establishment (CFE) which was technically non-operational.

As can be seen, provision of spare parts to back up the Corsairs was a bit of a worry from the start, and in fact remained so throughout the duration of their service. The "Loose Minute" pointed out these problems, but noted that the F4U-1D and the FG-1D were very similar ("practically identical"), as was most of their equipment. Main problem seemed to be the signals (communications) equipment fitted, with "approximately 52" of the FG-1Ds equipped with AN/ARC-1 and AN/ARC-5 VHF and HF transmitters and receivers.

As the RNZAF held no spares for the ARC-1 installations, six of the aircraft NOT nominated for 14 Squadron were stripped of this equipment and the latter was then sent to Japan with the other aircraft. It was obvious that this problem also affected the aircraft remaining in New Zealand, and various suggestions were made for replacing the ARC-1 sets with SCR-274s, or alternatively replacing the entire ARC-1 and ARC-5 combination with just a single ARC-5 set covering both HF and VHF frequencies. The pool of remaining FG-1Ds in New Zealand was robbed of these sets as required to keep all the operational aircraft fully-equipped, and endeavours were made to obtain further spare radio parts, or even complete sets from the British Pacific Fleet, but it is unknown if these attempts were successful or otherwise.

At the time this "Loose Minute" was produced, the locations of Corsairs in New Zealand was as follows:

F4U-1, F4U-1D: Wigram (for Central Flying School), total of 2.
Ardmore (for Central Fighter Establishment), also Nos. 14 and 15 Fighter Squadrons, plus Workshops; total of 28.
Rukuhia (no longer a station), No. 1 ASU, in either full or provisional long-term storage, total of 185 aircraft.
Ohakea (on allotment to No. 1 ASU), total of 1 aircraft.
Hobsonville (for Technical Training School), total of 2 aircraft (NZ5501, 5507).
TOTAL, 218 F4U-1, -1D aircraft.

FG-1D Rukuhia (no longer a station), No. 1 ASU, total of 35.
Japan (No. 14 F Squadron), total of 24. (SPECIAL NOTE: NZ5635 was destroyed in fatal accident in Japan on 20th April, 1946.)
TOTAL, 59 FG-1D aircraft.

However, those members who have persevered thus far will note that no mention has been made of two quite different types of starter motor under headings of either type of aircraft. I think this is just a little bit odd, particularly for those aircraft in faraway Japan. However there is really nothing conclusive about this total lack of information on the starter motors, but of course the earlier F4U-1s were not of interest to the RNZAF in May 1946, being pretty well obsolete (some would say clapped out), and none were nominated for retention in the post-war air force. My collection of technical manuals only seems to cover the earlier-model Corsairs, which had the cartridge-type starters. Can anyone point to reliable evidence that the later (F4U-1D and FG-1D type) Corsairs were definitely fitted with electric starter motors?

STOP PRESS!! Have just located the probably (published) origin of the statement about the types of starter motors fitted to various wartime models of Corsairs. This was one of the old "Profile Publication" from the 1960s, specifically No. 47, 1965, written by J F Dial, a fairly well-known (and respected) American author, and although he gives no source, I am fairly confident that he is quite right. Mention of the starter motors is on page 3.

David D

[Dave Homewood]

The Corsairs seen in this newsreel at the end of the war at the Corsair Assembly Unit in Los Negros are FG-1D's. One is seen being started with a battery cart.

[Dave Homewood]

That is interesting that 80 Corsairs were originally considered for being retained in service.

It's hard to believe that a government that had just been right through the entire war, and had built up the Air Force from basically nothing to a very potent, powerful and efficient force during that time that could hold its own and punch above its weight, with then a few months later decide they did not need even one squadron of fighters retained in New Zealand for defence of the nation. Yes I know they had Mosquitoes on the way but they then seriously curtailed the plans for them too and cut back four planned squadrons to just one. Had they learned nothing? Typical of politicians and bureaucrats. It's not like New Zealand was broke, we did rather OK out of WWII unlike many nations.

[shorty]

Same situation now, we realistically have no Air Force, even the historic flight is disappearing. What does leave us with, about 25 aircraft in total?
I certainly wouldn't recommend it as a career for anyone now.

[Dave Homewood]

Yes the situation is critically bad these days, but we are not exactly in the position New Zealanders were in back in 1946 - just out of a huge worldwide conflict where the whole world was still settling down and a lot of places around Asia were very volatile and revolutions and a rise in communism was occurring.

[davidd]

Also notice, Dave, that the number of Corsairs retained for post-war service (if only temporarily) in the RNZAF was eighty, and the number of the more politically acceptable (to Britain) Mosquitos ordered was also eighty - probably not a coincidence - same plan, different planes!

However the original post-war plans called for just three Mosquito squadrons rather than four. Once the Mosquito order was placed, the Corsair no longer had any future with the RNZAF, apart from those in Japan, which the Americans agreed were acceptable to them, without us having to actually purchase them. However the Corsairs were still counted in the final reckoning (Lend-Lease settlement negotiations) which were finally settled only a few months later in Washington.

As we all know now, the outcome for New Zealand was relatively good, in that what we owed the Americans was not too far removed from what they owed us for all those vegetables, and other food stuffs, plus the aerodromes we built for them (Nadi in particular, plus Ardmore, Seagrove, and probably the major works undertaken at Ohakea and Whenuapai), not to forget that little fleet of small auxiliary vessels (tug boats and barges) for the United States Army! Actually I still have trouble imagining that the two "opposing" debts could be of such similar size, but that is what history tells us.

David D

[Dave Homewood]

And the hundreds of thousands of pairs of boots that NZ industry made for them (as well as for Britain, India and elsewhere). I recall reading that NZ was supplying a lot of raw leather to the US forces too.