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Post by planecrazy on Sept 30, 2022 14:13:42 GMT 12
A couple of modelling questions.
I'm wondering what RNZAF crews would have worn in the 1950s say around the time
John Smith's Mosquito would have flown? I have seen pic's of what look like all white
overalls and then is their blue uniforms with life jackets and radio gear. Want to model
an all silver Mosquito with crew as John Smith's mosquito would have appeared
at or around her last flight.
Also RNZAF P40 crews in the pacific theatre, I guessing mainly American equipment
but again overalls? Have seen pictures with shorts and short sleeve shirts look like
light brown? Also saw a pick recently where the pilot looked like he had British rather
than American flying helmet?
Want to do a pacific theatre P40 with a pilot as well.
Thank you all......
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 30, 2022 15:54:37 GMT 12
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Post by davidd on Sept 30, 2022 16:35:18 GMT 12
Should try and get a look at the (rather rare) book on RNZAF uniforms and flying clothing, equipment, etc., by Barry O'Sullivan (published 2021), ISBN 978-0-473-57161-0, titled "New Zealand Air Force Uniforms, Clothing, Badges, and Personal Equipment, 1923 - 1948" (540 pages) highly recommended.
As for Mosquito aircrew 1948 - 52, this would have been either normal battledress clothing with usual RAF flying equipment (C type helmet, H oxygen mask, Mk. I (1941 pattern) Mae West, possibly the old wartime flying boots (1936 pattern) or later models of various types), plus Mk. VIII flying goggles, and RAF type parachute, etc. May also have been issued with the early RAF postwar flying suits (manufactured in light blue/grey and green variants, for "Home" and "Tropical" theatres), although cannot now remember their designations. There was also a late WW2 RAF Tropical flying suit which may have been put into circulation at this time. Another item possibly in use was the late WW2 (1943?) RAF "Escape" flying boots, which also became standard with our Vampire pilots in early 1950s.
Flying clothing worn in WW2 in NZ and Pacific was a mixture of locally made clothing based on RAF patterns, and fighter pilots had, by necessity, to wear oxygen equipment, parachutes, and (later) survival packs, etc. There were also NZ-pattern Tropical flying helmets (the ones based on RAF tropical helmet but made from KD material, and featuring very obvious cut-outs to increase the ventilation! The tropical helmets were also used in NZ in summer time, and additional versions of the local tropical helmet were developed and introduced later in the war (1944/45). In Singapore and Burma, 1941/42, RNZAF pilots were issued with flying equipment in-theatre and wore mostly RAF gear (including the RAF Tropical Mae West, 1932 pattern), with shorts being popular, and this was also the case in NZ in training as well as operational aircraft, but later in the South Pacific, the wearing of shorts seems to have been greatly discouraged, and photos taken thereafter of NZ aircrew in the South Pacific wearing shorts are noticeable by their almost complete absence, probably because of the risk of severe burns in accidents. Much American military (USAAC, USN, USMC) flying equipment was issued to RNZAF flying personnel in the South and South West Pacific theatres from late 1942 onwards, but particularly from 1943 when it became more standardised, including the issuing (on loan) of Nylon parachutes in lieu of RAF silk types, also various types of helmets, Mae Wests, goggles, oxygen equipment, emergency dinghies, etc.
Hope this gives you some ideas of what you should be looking for, but best to check with reference books, and remember that the RNZAF never used all RAF flying equipment available as we had a much simpler air force than the much larger RAF, with less specialised aircraft, and ditto for American equipment issued to us in the Pacific theatre. Obviously only suitable types were chosen for issue to our aircrew, on recommendations of the American supply officers (or Air Ministry postwar, in late 1940s/early 50s), and from what was available at the time. Some of the colourful American Nylon flying suits were issued to certain RNZAF Catalina personnel (and possibly others) later in WW2, but their utilisation was not recommended when it became obvious that they also represented a serious fire risk to the wearer should their aircraft burst into flames for any reason. If you browse through the photographs on this site, you can come across some excellent views of what is being worn, and where, but interpreting these as to what type of gear is actually visible and being worn is a bit of a black art, to put it mildly, as you have to be pretty knowledgeable and familiar with all the possible types, and the variations of mixed equipment.
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Post by planecrazy on Sept 30, 2022 16:51:27 GMT 12
Thanks Dave great stuff, good point also about the sleeves rolled down.
So imagine the colours would have been light tan for the P40s and
perhaps dark brown for the Mosi crews?
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Post by planecrazy on Sept 30, 2022 17:03:41 GMT 12
Also great stuff David, quite a mix when you down to it.
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Post by davidd on Sept 30, 2022 21:09:21 GMT 12
Well, on the P-40s in Pacific, mostly the pilots wore the US Navy flying overalls in its various permutations (which replaced all sorts and colours of overalls purchased by pilots at their own expense when they were first notified for deployment overseas, initially to Tonga, then Espiritu Santo and Guadalcanal). On their heads they initially wore the NZ-versions of brown leather helmets, but soon changed to the first iteration of the NZ tropical helmet. For footwear, they quickly changed from the (totally unsuitable) NZ version of sheepskin flying boots to the American light-weight boots (known as "Boondockers"), certainly not intended as flying boots in the first instance, but they were light, comfortable, and most importantly did not damage aircraft skins! Fortunately our groundstaff, working on aircraft at this time, also changed from NZ Army boots (even more unsuitable, they had hob-nails!) to the Boondockers for obvious reasons. Fighter pilot normally favoured RAF type goggles and helmets as well as their Mae Wests (officially "Waistcoats, Life Saving") over their American contemporaries, presumably as they were considered to be more comfortable in service, but more and more American gear was issued as time passed, and this equipment can be seen worn by Ventura and Avenger crews. However, the RAF Mk. VIII goggles were still very much in evidence in 1945, particularly in the Corsair squadrons. There was a New Zealand attempt to introduce a local pattern two-piece overall for Corsair squadrons, with one squadron being so-equipped in last months of the war. New Zealand representatives frequently pointed out that RNZAF flying personnel in particular were entitled to two pairs of flying suits, the same as their American counterparts in the forward area under the memorandum of understanding signed by senior American officials as early as late 1942, but there always seemed to be a certain amount of reluctance by US Navy supply officers in the forward area to honour this agreement (which carried under the signatures of the most senior theatre commanders of the time!) Some other RAF items favoured by our fighter pilot in the early days were the RAF gunsights, and the parachute harnesses, the former for practibility, and the latter for safety, the RAF version having a quick release arrangement which enabled the pilot down in the sea to jettison his chute (now a menace) quickly and reliably. The American P-40 squadron which 15 Squadron relieved in Tonga in October 1942 warned the New Zealanders that they had lost two pilots in such incidents over the preceding months, and felt that these deaths would have been prevented with the more advanced British releases now available.
Looking at NZ Mosquito crews in 1949 - 52 period, in some photographs they seem to be wearing those early postwar blue-grey flying suits with wartime Mae Wests and C-type helmets, plus H-type oxy masks and perhaps those RAF escape boots, but these are only guesses - do not have full access to these files at the moment, as they are domiciled at the RNZAF Museum (Wigram). These are copies of the original files copied for me at National Archives (now Archives NZ) in Wellington, in 1990s, so there is a complete set of these in Wellington and Wigram, just in case you are handy to either. Back to the story, at about this time the RNZAF was involved in preparing full issue lists ("Scales of Issue") of appropriate flying gear of the latest patterns to re-equip all types of aircrew in the post-war RNZAF, right down to underwear, numbers of each item to be issued, and all Section/Reference numbers, and was attempting to get government authority to purchase sufficient quantities in realistic spreads of sizes to last for some time into the future, although the government was always keen to be seen as extremely prudent in handling such purchases.
Hope these notes (written purely from memory - and I wasn't even there!) give a little more detail and nuance to my first post.
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Post by planecrazy on Sept 30, 2022 21:25:00 GMT 12
Thanks David, found these couple of P40 pic's on line, these chaps look like they are in New Zealand obviously early P40 era and what looks like RAF or similar gear.  This chap and I don't know if he is a New Zealander, looks like he is wearing overalls, guessing of course but perhaps white, grey or maybe even a tan colour?  |
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Post by davidd on Oct 1, 2022 10:37:15 GMT 12
Planecrazy, yes, that is 15 Squadron at Whenuapai about late September 1942 (photo published 7th October), so about two weeks before they departed for Tonga, but sans their aircraft (they took over 23 P-40s - all "E" models excepting two almost new P-40K-1s, when they arrived at destination).
Pilots (L to R) are P/O I R (Ian) McKenzie, Sgt G R (Guy) Youngs, P/O G H (Gethin) Owen, P/O J J (Jesse) de Willimoff, Sgt H P ("Horrie") Jensen, Sgt J I (John) Mackie, Sgt I A (Ian) Murdoch, and Sgt E W (Eric) Wagstaff. Incidentally, Jensen, Mackie, Murdoch and Wagstaff had all been repatriated from Singapore in March 1942, after that torrid campaign, and de Willimoff was posted to squadron from a Hudson squadron in New Zealand, remaining three were posted to squadron from training schools. However normal full pilot strength of squadron on operations was in vicinity of 23/25, and groundstaff of about 200 on first tour, more on later tours.
Second photo shows pilot Sgt Ian Murdcoch, who also appears in top photo above, a very boyish young chap, and rather short judging by his contemporaries.
They are all wearing a sort of "Home" (New Zealand) assemblage of uniform and kit, including "normal" officer shoes, NZ-made versions of B-type helmets (type of oxygen mask obscure in lower shot, maybe the Canadian rubber type), Mk. IIIA goggles (on five of the eight), normal SD (Service Dress) uniforms, which means Officers in Barathea and NCOs in rougher Serge. RAF 1941 pattern Mk. I "Mae Wests" also very obvious, including some personal art work on Wagstaff's! At least two are wearing temperate climate flying gloves (brown colour). Note the general massiveness of the R/T cable with plug hanging down, the oxygen tube, attachment tapes for the Mae Wests, and the aircraft's equally massive safety harness. As Murdoch in top photo is wearing his SD jacket, it can only be presumed that he removed this jacket before he got into his aircraft, exposing his light blue shirt. Remember this photo taken in late Spring in Auckland. However the apparent dark "strap" visible under his arm looks like the ones attached to their Mae Wests, so I am just as confused as anybody!
In case anybody is wondering, I have to admit that I spent quite a bit of time talking with the late Ian McKenzie (a lifelong farmer from North Canterbury) who took a great interest in my project to ensure that "his old squadron" was not forgotten, and like me was concerned that, even then, some scoundrels (at least 3 un-named individuals) had put it about that 15 Squadron did not even get airborne until they reached Tonga, claiming that they had no aircraft at all at Whenuapai! This possibly because 15 Sqdn was deployed to the forward area (Guadalcanal) ahead of 14, who had ferried up the new model P-40Ks and Ms to Espiritu Santo before handing them over to 15, who had just arrived from Tonga, Fiji and Espiritu Santo with their much older aircraft. He also attempted to provide all the names actually used by their pilots for normal conversation. "Horrie" for instance, was actually Horace.
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