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Post by Antonio on Jul 29, 2023 17:54:06 GMT 12
Link: www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/29/four-missing-after-australian-military-helicopter-crashes-into-pacificFour feared dead after Australian military helicopter crashes into Pacific. MRH-90 Taipan helicopter and crew missing after crashing into waters off the state of Queensland late last night.  Four aircrew were missing after an Australian army helicopter ditched into waters off the Queensland state coast during joint US-Australian military exercises [File: Bradley Richardson/ADF via AP Photo] Australia has paused a military exercise with the United States after a helicopter crash left four aircrew missing. The Australian Defence Force MRH-90 Taipan helicopter crashed into waters off the northeastern state of Queensland at around 10:30pm on Friday (12:30 GMT), Defence Minister Richard Marles said. “The families of the four aircrew have been notified of this incident and our hopes and thoughts are very much with the aircrew and their families,” Marles said “We desperately hope for better news during the course of this day.” The aircraft had been taking part in the Talisman Sabre, a joint Australia-US military exercise involving 13 countries, including Japan, France and Germany, and more than 30,000 personnel.Officials have not offered a cause for the incident or indicated when the exercises might resume. Searches for the missing aircrew have been under way since overnight. Brigadier Damian Hill said the exercises had been paused to allow participants to “reach out and let their families know what is going on.” US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who is in Australia with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken for talks, paid tribute to the missing aircrew. “It’s always tough when you have accidents in training, but … the reason that we train to such high standards is so that we can be successful, and we can protect lives when we are called to answer any kind of crisis,” Austin said. “Our guys tend to make this look easy and they make it look easy because they’re so well exercised and rehearsed and trained, and this is unfortunately a part of that, what it takes to get them to where we need them to be,” Austin added. Australia is undertaking the biggest overhaul of its military since World War II, shifting emphasis towards long-range strike capabilities with an eye towards potential adversaries, including China. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 30, 2023 5:46:35 GMT 12
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Post by snafu on Jul 30, 2023 9:26:26 GMT 12
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Post by snafu on Jul 30, 2023 10:19:25 GMT 12
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Post by Mustang51 on Jul 30, 2023 15:34:10 GMT 12
Thoughts to families and friends.
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Post by snafu on Jul 31, 2023 17:21:46 GMT 12
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Post by Mustang51 on Jul 31, 2023 19:12:18 GMT 12
Judging by the piece they have found it hit hard. The currents between those islands are quite strong so the other section could be a great distance from where the incident occurred. I just hope that they find it soon for the sake of all the families involved.
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Post by richard1098 on Aug 1, 2023 0:10:55 GMT 12
Its being reported that the MRH might not fly again in the ADF if it is determined that the machines is at fault. Deliveries of the new Black Hawks start later this year, so the planned retirement date is already pretty close. |
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Post by Mustang51 on Aug 1, 2023 7:11:20 GMT 12
We should have followed the advice of the experts and ordered updated Blackhawks in the first place
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Post by richard1098 on Aug 1, 2023 8:16:07 GMT 12
We should have followed the advice of the experts and ordered updated Blackhawks in the first place The irony is that due to deficiencies in the NH90/MRH90, the original ADF Black Hawks were kept flying until a few years ago. |
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Post by ErrolC on Aug 1, 2023 8:40:45 GMT 12
We should have followed the advice of the experts and ordered updated Blackhawks in the first place There are updates to the NH-90 that the AU Govt decided not to do some years ago, right? Some that effect reliability? |
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Post by richard1098 on Aug 1, 2023 10:15:20 GMT 12
We should have followed the advice of the experts and ordered updated Blackhawks in the first place There are updates to the NH-90 that the AU Govt decided not to do some years ago, right? Some that effect reliability? I seriously doubt any available reliability or safety upgrades would not have been applied, particularly given the additional resources pumped into the program to ensure availability. That included leasing AW 139s to counter low avialability rates for the MRH90s. This is certainly not the first or only incident involving the NH90 that has resulted in fatalities. |
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Post by ErrolC on Aug 1, 2023 11:42:30 GMT 12
There are updates to the NH-90 that the AU Govt decided not to do some years ago, right? Some that effect reliability? I seriously doubt any available reliability or safety upgrades would not have been applied, particularly given the additional resources pumped into the program to ensure availability. That included leasing AW 139s to counter low avialability rates for the MRH90s. This is certainly not the first or only incident involving the NH90 that has resulted in fatalities. Did the ADF ever refute this? www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-18/army-insiders-claim-taipan-fleet-did-not-get-software-upgrades/102234056 |
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Post by Mustang51 on Aug 1, 2023 11:45:30 GMT 12
....and shock, horror.....the RANFAA 90's were never navalised to the point where there was an unspoken corrosion issue developing. Why would you ever order a naval helicopter without the normal safeguards...or for that matter, one where you couldn't satisfactorily utilise the door mounted machine gun.....Procurement 101....(sorry, Politicians 101).......
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Post by richard1098 on Aug 1, 2023 11:56:52 GMT 12
Haven’t seen anything in the public domain. But even if it is factually correct, there could be valid and compelling reasons why an update was not rolled out across the entire fleet. Seriously, why stop after a few airframes? |
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Post by richard1098 on Aug 1, 2023 12:06:35 GMT 12
....and shock, horror.....the RANFAA 90's were never navalised to the point where there was an unspoken corrosion issue developing. Corrosion issues have hit the NFH90, the variant specifically designed and marketed for maritime operations. The Dutch were pretty public about the issue, and at one stage halted deliveries. |
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Post by Mustang51 on Aug 1, 2023 12:43:48 GMT 12
From the "GET GO", this was a pollies "look at me getting jobs" purchase rather than a fit for purpose acquisition to fill all of the known requirements as recommended by the experts. Bring this up at a press conference and watch the politicians disappear like a room full of cockroaches when the light is turned on. This is not to say that the current tragedy is a direct result of the acquisition of a deficient airframe, that could be down to hundreds of potential issues with only a few coinciding to cause the accident. However, to me, it is symptomatic of the competing electoral and technical requirements that seem to pervade Australia's military procurement processes.
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Post by snafu on Aug 1, 2023 12:48:23 GMT 12
....and shock, horror.....the RANFAA 90's were never navalised to the point where there was an unspoken corrosion issue developing. Why would you ever order a naval helicopter without the normal safeguards...or for that matter, one where you couldn't satisfactorily utilise the door mounted machine gun.....Procurement 101....(sorry, Politicians 101)....... Because its acceptable practice to wash down the aircraft in fresh water to prevent corrosion build up. that's normal SOP does not mean it will stop the corrosion either. With ADF NH90 rotated to minimise corrosion issues as the majority of the time the aircraft were operated on land Dutch NH90 were marinised and they are having corrosion issues. flyinginireland.com/2023/01/europes-nh90-naval-and-battlefield-helicopter/www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/dutch-nh90s-to-receive-mid-life-upgradeAlso upon arrival the helicopter because of it extensive use of composite matrials was billed as being able to operate in both land and martime envoroments and be corrosion free. by NHIndustries January 25, 2010 in Navy News NFH = NATO FRIGATE HELICOPTER |
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Post by snafu on Aug 1, 2023 12:58:22 GMT 12
We should have followed the advice of the experts and ordered updated Blackhawks in the first place The irony is that due to deficiencies in the NH90/MRH90, the original ADF Black Hawks were kept flying until a few years ago. That was for Special Operations Command (SOCOMD) The regiment comprises: 6th Aviation Regiment Headquarters (Holsworthy Barracks, Sydney, New South Wales) 171st Special Operations Aviation Squadron 173rd Aviation Squadron Support Squadron The 171st Special Operations Aviation Squadron is the regiment's operational squadron and 173rd Aviation Squadron is the regiment's training squadron. https___aphref.aph.gov.au_house_committee_pwc_holsworthy171_subs_sub1.pdf |
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Post by richard1098 on Aug 1, 2023 13:47:00 GMT 12
From the "GET GO", this was a pollies "look at me getting jobs" purchase rather than a fit for purpose acquisition to fill all of the known requirements as recommended by the experts. Bring this up at a press conference and watch the politicians disappear like a room full of cockroaches when the light is turned on. This is not to say that the current tragedy is a direct result of the acquisition of a deficient airframe, that could be down to hundreds of potential issues with only a few coinciding to cause the accident. However, to me, it is symptomatic of the competing electoral and technical requirements that seem to pervade Australia's military procurement processes. Any procurement decision does involve uncertainty, but Super Seasprite, NH90 and Tigre were all approved in a fairly short timeframe... |
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