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Post by machina on Aug 4, 2023 10:27:09 GMT 12
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Post by tbf2504 on Aug 4, 2023 11:20:51 GMT 12
Are they just seeking more votes?
Whatever they propose it will not be in effect before the election, and if there is a change of government, then back to the drawing board?
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 4, 2023 14:08:41 GMT 12
I listened to his "announcement" live and got the feeling he was just kicking the can down the road until after the election. There was nothing said that hasn't already been said, including by other Government ministers. No detail, no commitment, just hollow words and stating the obvious (the world is in a very dangerous place right now). The "Benign strategic environment" has never existed, even back in 2001. To say it did "back then" is ignoring the facts (9/11, East Timor)!
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skyman
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 82 
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Post by skyman on Aug 4, 2023 15:55:43 GMT 12
New Zealand would not be in the position it finds itself in now if the then Labour Prime Minister Helen Clark had not scrapped the Air Combat Wing. We would also be more 'on-side' with our ANZAC friends too. Labour has only itself to blame for the current situation.
Al
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Post by machina on Aug 4, 2023 16:49:20 GMT 12
Understand the scepticism, I basically agree. However the language has continued to become more blatant, especially naming China in the way it does, and the number and types of people using that language seems to be growing.
I know it doesn’t mean an order for fighters on Monday morning but I think it’s another step away from the folly of gutting our military and being more realistic about the wider world.
Here’s hoping at least!
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Post by obiwan27 on Aug 7, 2023 10:06:08 GMT 12
Seems very much like he situation that NZ found itself in prior to WW2, with a military that was equipped but not capable to respond to the cataclysmic events that were to follow.
Lend-lease provided huge equipment modernisation that was sorely needed, and the support of Allies was necessary as Japan entered the war and progressed south through SEA and towards Australia and NZ.
Post-war politicians failed to learn the lessons of history, or respond rapidly enough to a changing strategic environment.
This is the problem of politics and decision making based on popularity and personality.
Another headache for any potential new Government to tackle, among the many.
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Post by kiwiruna on Aug 7, 2023 12:06:09 GMT 12
Also we should be expediting our requests for equipment in order that they are received in a timely manner, rather than how we normally do things.
I would also suggest ex PMs keep their noses out of this particular, given that her recent comments are not particularly helpful
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Post by thelensofhistory on Aug 11, 2023 23:42:57 GMT 12
I listened to his "announcement" live and got the feeling he was just kicking the can down the road until after the election. There was nothing said that hasn't already been said, including by other Government ministers. No detail, no commitment, just hollow words and stating the obvious (the world is in a very dangerous place right now). The "Benign strategic environment" has never existed, even back in 2001. To say it did "back then" is ignoring the facts (9/11, East Timor)!
I am sceptical that anything will change after the recent policy announcements. But the first step to recovery is admitting an issue (New Zealand's dire strategic outlook) needs to be addressed, so the door is ajar for rebuilding the NZDF.
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