RNZAF Hastings Query

[Bruce]

I've decided to tackle my Formaplane Hastings as the next project - It looks like I can make something decent out of it.

One little question that perhaps some of our older ex service people can answer is this:
when a Hastings is parked, are the flaps intentionally lowered or do they just droop on thier accord as pneumatic pressure drops off? virtually every photo I have seen of a parked example has full flap selected, and as I intend to show NZ3501 on the ground (as with all my models) this is an important issue. As the kit is a vacform, the complexity of depicting the flaps in this position is quite tricky, but if the flaps were intentionally lowered when parked, that is how they'll have to be. if it is just"natural sag" I'll leave them up, as immediately after shutdown!
Any ideas?

[Dave Homewood]

Now there's a tough question Bruce. :-)

[flyjoe180]

I notice a lot of other British aircraft of that period, including the Devon, which also has pneumatic systems, sit with their flaps in a down position. Unsure whether they droop slowly or the pressure is dumped when the aircraft is shut down. ]

You may like to try asking the question on the Handley page forum www.handleypage.com/Menu_page.html, bound to be some one there who knows for sure.

splashdown2.tripod.com/handleypagehastings/

[johncooper]

I'm not sure of the procedure regarding flaps down when parked, but I have hundreds of pix of Hastybirds as such and all pretty much show this, I was an engine bod, but I do know some riggers that should know, will report back tomorrow

John Cooper

[Dave Homewood]

Welcome John. Great to see you here.

For those who don't know John runs the splashdown site as listed by Joe above.

[flyjoe180]

Cool, nice to 'meet' you John! That webiste ate up half my morning, great reading!

[johncooper]

Thank you for your welcome. I have been on Dave's website before but had to reregister. Overnight I have had no reply regarding the query by Bruce from my contacts, but I have put a request on my Hastings thread on my own forum

Bruce just to go a little further all the RNZAF aircraft were numbered NZ5801-04, all were C3 Variants, here is a photo I took of one at Lyneham with flaps lowered in 1954 from on board another Hastings, sorry about the quality this was taken with a steam driven Brownie 127 (oh for digicams in those days! )



Going back to the Flaps.............You could be right in saying pneumatic, or (me speaking here) maybe hydraulic () but all marks had a flap movement Fully down 80 degrees and Max Lift as 40 degrees

There are some ex Hastings aircrew types that frequent my forum but I will put out some feelers and hope to report back soon.

John

[Peter Lewis]

These pics may help, Bruce. All taken at Whenuapai and all logged as silver with white top, blue trim and serial in black.

NZ5801 2Feb1964



NZ5802 6Jul1963



NZ5803 14Jan1965

[Bruce]

Yeah its 5801, not 3501- got mixed up with a C47 serial! Thanks for the pictures Peter, such good quality images will be a great help. The colour scheme actually varied considerably in minor details over time - especially the titles printed on the blue stripe - in this instance they have disappeared completely!. The blue stripe varied a bit as well, the pictures above show the later style where the top slants down just behind the cockpit - the earlier version which I intend to do has the top of the line slanting up. It also seems to be a darker blue - the 1960s images you have here has a greenish tint in colour pics of the time, the earlier stripes were a darker, bluer blue. The pictures show a lot of detail regarding antenna and fittings, which will be a great help.
Thanks for your help too John, I spent way to long (on work time too) having a look at that site - great stories! I think I will probably model the flaps down anyway, as that is obviously how they end up for one reason or another, but I would still love to know the reason why. Hopefully some of the ex Hastings crew can explain it all.
I'll try and post some progress pictures of the model as I go.

[johncooper]

I have had a look at about 50 Hastings so far and it appears as if Flaps down/flaps up show about 50/50

Those pics from Peter are absolutely superb, thanks for sharing them.

Somehow the RNZAF bird looks more of a Queen of The Skies than the others but I did like the Met Hastings at one stage all blue and another time all grey.

PS I have since heard from a Rigger and he informs me that the flaps were hydraulically operated. But cannot state why some flaps were down and some up!

[Bruce]

The Hastings model is progressing, I thought I would post some pics of the model immediately after finishing spraying the basic colours:





some details about the kit:
It is a 1/72 scale formaplane "Hastings CII" vac form. That said, the kit has the small tailplane of the mark I, but in a position somewhere between the Mark Is high setting and the correct Mark II! (and Mark III) Much as I would have liked to have this correct, the structural issues involved with this sort of adjustment on a Vac form is way too difficult to contemplate, so I'll leave it as it is - hopefully the purists will forgive me!. The actual kit is quite good for a vacform, with a little care all the components fit quite well, with the exception of a bit of jiggling and filling around the underside of the wing roots. The kit does not include any resin or injected parts, and the vacformed engines, props and undercarriage are very poor. I will be modifying the undercarriage off an Airfix Halifax and using that, also the 4 engines, suitably modified. I have purchased a set of Aeroclub 4 bladed Rotol props, supposedly for a Halifax and these are the right size and shape. They must however have been for a Merlin Halifax as they are actually the wrong rotation. Once again I hope the purists dont get upset. As mitigation I note that the Props on the Yorkshire Air Museums magnificent Halifax "reproduction" are also Merlin props and wrong handed!
As you see the flaps have been removed and will be refitted in the 80 deg extended postion. careful study of Hastings pics shows them in that position in most cases.
I have printed the Cheatlines etc on decal film as an early version of NZ5801. I will even include one silver propeller spinner and 3 black ones, as there is a well known photo of 01 in this config - probably with a spinner borrowed off a Bristol Freighter due to Spinner backplate cracking!.
Will post some more photos once the Hastibird is finished.

[Bruce]

Completed the Hastibird tonight:













I think its come up pretty well for an old vacform. (unfortunately the flash shows up a mismatch of some of the blues - not noticeable under normal conditions) Great looking machine the Hastings were - I like them!

[mumbles]

Nice work.
It may not be pretty but it certainly has character. Phil82 has a few Hastings stories, and constantly refers to them as 'the best three engined transport in the world'........
Interesting that the cheat lines on the fin in the photographs don't appear to be aligned with the ones on the fuselage, or with anything (flying/ground attitude) for that matter.

[Dave Homewood]

Very nice Bruce. It looks a lot shinier than the sad remains at Motat do.

Have you got a Dakota to sit next to it for size comparison?

[steve]

Whow... i wish i could make models like that...just one question ...the RNZAF roundel is missing the silver fern..did that come later?

[phil82]

I spent a bit of time in the back of a Hastings, although I don't recall if I ever flew in the RNZAF ones.Like all tail-wheel aircraft, they wern't the easist thing in the world to land, and circuit training could lead to some pretty specataculr bounces! I recall one at RAF Eastleigh near Nairobi which bounced right off the runway and settled down on the grass but heading directly for the bomb dump, and I thought 'this ought to be spectacular'. Fortunately it stopped. This one lost an engine on take-off and the resulting swing sideways was too much for the undercarriage. The RNZAF aircraft, incidentally, were cut up by a contractor at Ohakea. They were never that clean by the way! Like most Bristol-engined aircraft they only needed the Navigator one-way; they could foloow the oil slick back!

i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/Shadblat/Hastings-1.jpg

[Bruce]

Glad you like it.
Steve the fern Roundel came a bit later, late 1950s from memory. The photos of 01 that I used as primary reference is in "Aircraft of the RNZAF" by David Duxbury. That has the aircraft fairly early in its career with plain roundels, the earlier darker cheatlines and the one silver spinner!. other than the nacelles its isnt particularly stained or weathered at the time, although as the early paints were cellulose lacquers (unlike modern 2 pot mixes) it probably wasnt as shiny, but hey, I like it...
Dave, I'll try an get a photo of it next to a Dak, it is quite a bit bigger, and a lot "chunkier". The cockpit sits impressively high, and the aircraft is about Herk size, but with a larger wingspan. definitely a muscular workhorse.
The RAF had a lot of engine problems with its fleet, but the probable cause is not so much the engines (the Bristol Hercules were used on many other aircraft without the same problems) but some MoD / Supply beancounter who noticed how much oil the Hastings fleet consumed (normal for large radials) They had the bright idea of saving money by running the fleet on re-refined recycled oils and with minimal consultation changed the whole fleet over. Unfortunately sleeve valve engines are a bit of precision kit, and are very picky about oil quality, and as a result the inevitable engine failures occurred, giving the Hastings its bad reputation. I understand that the RNZAF fleet had a better reliability record, largely because they used the correct oil. Theres a lesson there somewhere...

[phil82]

Err... Bruce...NZ5804 took part in 1953 London-Christchurch Air Race in October 1953 flown by Wing Commander R F Watson, but withdrew after engine failure and emergency landing in Ceylon, a new engine was flown out to Negombo from New Zealand, and 5804 returned to NZ on 20th October.

This was the same aircraft which crashed on takeoff from Darwin on 09 September 1955 when multiple bird strikes caused power to be lost in 3 engines. All 25 on board survived but aircraft was written off!

[Bruce]

well the birdstrike wasnt a reliability issue - and while 04 did have that failure, its nothing like the issues the RAF had when it was not unknown for a Hastings to return to Lyneham from Singapore with 4 different engines to the ones it had departed outbound with!

[phil82]

Yep, quite right Bruce. In my time in the RAF the Hastings was legendary for all the wrong reasons. You could never be sure you would actually get the flight you were on!

Speaking of engine shut-downs, and off-topic I know, but I was on a 42 Sqn Dak from Woodbourne to Ohakea with a sports team of some sort, and the Captain announced a 'precautionary' shut down of the Port engine and headed on in to Ohakes. There was a short silence, then a voice from the Starboard side of the aircraft announced: "tough luck fellas, the one on our side is still going". You had to laugh really.