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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 29, 2006 11:59:35 GMT 12
I just bought an old copy of NZ Wings dated February 1975, with a news article about the official handover of the first Airtrainer to the RAAF.
It's interesting to read that at the handover at Bankstown to the RAAF's Air Vice Marshall G.T. Newstead, apparently misgivings were expressed that the $A2.8million purchase of the aircraft were being made outside of Australia. The report states that it was ironic the RAAF was getting the Airtrainers from NZ now because 8 years before the 'original design' was offered to the RAAF by Victa but turned down, and Victa had to sell off its aircraft division due to lack of Government support.
I would argue that the Airtrainer was not a Victa original design - it was a newly designed aircraft which was based on the starting point of the Victa Aircruiser.
So I guess Victa must have offered the RAAF the Aircruiser? Or Airtourer?
Anyway, over the years that the Airtrainer served the RAAF, did they ever have many problems with them? Groundings due to cracks or trouble?
Were any lost in RAAF service?
Who were the servicing company for their major servicings (PAC did it here in NZ for the RNZAF. Did they also do RAAF major servicings or was there another Aussie based contractor? Or did the RAAF themselves do them?
Lastly, how many remain active today? And does the RAAF retain any in service today as either hacks/communications aircraft or as historic flight aircraft?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 29, 2006 12:00:49 GMT 12
Oddly too serial wise, the first one handed over was serial coded A19-027, ratehr than 001. Were the first 26 aircraft in that range a different type? Or were they just delivered out of order?
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Post by corsair67 on Aug 29, 2006 13:05:46 GMT 12
Dave, A19-027 was the first Airtrainer in service with the RAAF, and I think that the serials were all based on the aircraft's construction number.
I believe that only two Airtrainers were written off during their 18 years of RAAF service: one at Oakey in QLD and one into the sea near Point Cook. The RAAF Museum at Point Cook have two Airtrainers - A19-027 on display in the museum and A19-077 is kept in airworthy condition with the Heritage Flight.
Several others were apparently taken over by the RAAF's Technical Training School at Wagga as instructional airframes.
There are currently 30 CT-4A Airtrainers on the Australian register.
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Post by Calum on Aug 29, 2006 13:51:31 GMT 12
BAE Systems operate a lot of ex RAAF Airtrainers at Tamworth in NSW.
They carry out the RAAF's basic flight training. The aircraft and maintainers are BAE personel with the RAAF providing the majority (if not all) the flying instructors.
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Post by Bruce on Aug 29, 2006 13:59:01 GMT 12
Actually, a lot of BAE system's aircraft are ex-RNZAF, with their initial batch being new build machines direct from PAC (they may have some ex RAAF ones as well though). When I worked at Aeromotive we were upgrading the old RNZAF machines to "better than new" standard for export to BAe ( they certainly had some very nice avionics goodies installed) I know a number of ex RAAF CT-4s are operaing in NZ as well now.
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Post by Calum on Aug 29, 2006 14:48:21 GMT 12
I stand corrected. thanks Bruce
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Post by stu on Aug 29, 2006 16:04:25 GMT 12
A quick question with regard to the Tamworth based Airtrainers that someone may be able to help with ... I was recently staying near Tamworth airport (middle marker in the paddock next to the house) and noticed that whenever the Airtrainers took off they did a good aural impersonation of a Harvard. Did the upgrade for BAE include work on the engine or prop as I'm sure I've never noticed the NZ based ones making that much noise?
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Post by turboNZ on Aug 29, 2006 16:10:14 GMT 12
Don't the RNZAF one have quieter props and engines than the earlier A-models? (If that's the reason Stu's asking about)
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Post by Bruce on Aug 29, 2006 16:27:07 GMT 12
The Bae CT-4Bs have exactly the same props and engines as they did in NZ (Only freshly overhauled) and likewise the same exhaust systems (One of the differences between an 'A' and a 'B' is the CT4B has streamline section exhausts projecting thru the cowl, the 'A's have round tube) and both A's and Bs use the same prop / engine combination. The 'E"s currently in use in NZ have mufflers on the Lycoming engines, and 3 blade props so they are much quiter, despite the increase in power - were you comparing them to those or the Bs when they were in service? Perhaps BAe use different power and prop settings in the climb?
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Post by stu on Aug 29, 2006 16:47:00 GMT 12
Thanks for the info Bruce. If I'd engaged my brain I should have realised it would most probably be a case of the 'B's being noisier than the 'E's - slow day at work dulls the senses.
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Post by corsair67 on Aug 29, 2006 17:11:56 GMT 12
There certainly is a bit of difference between the sound of a CT-4A and a CT-4B. There are a couple of A models that fly around Canberra every so often, and they sound quite different to how I recall the RNZAF CT-4Bs that flew endlessly around Christchurch sounded.
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Post by Bruce on Aug 29, 2006 18:59:14 GMT 12
It'll be the pipes - not sure why exactly, but thats the difference... (Streamlined sound?)
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Post by planeimages on Aug 29, 2006 19:21:18 GMT 12
Thicker air around Canberra!
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Post by corsair67 on Aug 30, 2006 9:46:15 GMT 12
The air is hotter over Canberra - especially directly above Parliament House! ;D
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Post by aileronroll on Sept 3, 2006 15:13:44 GMT 12
I am currently working in Tamworth as a military QFI. As well as basic training for RAAF we also train for Navy and Army Air Corps. No ex RAAF CT4s here just the original ones purchased by Ansett Flying College and the ex RNZAF fleet, being a Kiwi it is always nice to strap on one of these. The old RAAF A models did not have an inverted fuel or oil system. My Boss was an Instructor at Point Cook and has about 5000 hours on the CT4, must be some sort of a world record.
If any of you are passing through Tamworth send me an email and will try and organise a look through what we do here !
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 3, 2006 19:21:59 GMT 12
Thanks for that info.
The RNZAF CT/4B's started life also without the inverted fuel and oil system I believe, and it was only fitted when they began to do the mirror formation with the Red Checkers - from wheat I read recently in a write-up about that team in an old airshow programme.
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Post by corsair67 on Sept 5, 2006 16:19:30 GMT 12
Mr Roll, I might have to take you up on that offer one day! I've never been to Tamworth before, so might be a good excuse to go.
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Post by stu on Sept 5, 2006 16:39:34 GMT 12
Mr Roll, I might have to take you up on that offer one day! I've never been to Tamworth before, so might be a good excuse to go. Ditto on that, hope to be back in Tamworth in january 07. Have to send you an email beforehand.
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