RNZAF & Politics

[turboNZ]

Hiya,

Without wanting to start this into a political thread, has Mr Brash expressed any pledges to further improve the RNZAF and it's operation if the Nats get in ?

I assume our lady in power will keep status quo (aside from the EH-90's supposed to be coming in to replace the Hueys)

TNZ

[Dave Homewood]

In his usual flip-flop manner, on April 25th in front of the veterans he pledged to up the defence budget immediately by 20%. Last month he announced he wouldn't be increasing it. Yet he said he'd still be upping wages of all defence personnel and trying to fix the rot Labour has caused to the armed forces.

I haven't heard any specifics on the RNZAF but I assume as he's a bean counter, little will go their way from National, just like Labour.

Winston Peters has apparently pledged to build up the Air Force again, but then he also pledged yesterday not to get into Government when he said he didn't want to side with either team (can't blame him - rock and hard place, frying pan and fire, and devil and deep blue sea all come to mind)

Helen will no doubt purchase a new commuter jet since her 757's are poked.

PS - on the topic of bollitics - is photoshopping your face completely to look halfway presentable for the billboards considered a category of lying? I think so. I think if you voted for what's in the adverts and then saw what you got, it's be like buying a dead parrot!

[turboNZ]

ah okay, thanks, Dave...just what I thought,...promises and then broken promises and then denial, poor RNZAF...thought Brash may have even got the Strike wing reactivated as an election promise.

[corsair67]

I think the big problem with the Nats possibly wanting to get the Strike Wing up and running again was always going to be finding the experienced personnel to re-equip the Squadrons: too many years have passed since Comrade Helen shafted the RNZAF, and most of the pilots have moved onto bigger and better things. In fact I was most impressed at the RAAF Airshow at Amberley last October when it was announced that the pilot flying one of the display F-111s was an ex-RNZAF fighter pilot; and boy, did he put on a spirited display, or what!

[Dave Homewood]

I don't know, I think a re-instatement may attract several ex-RNZAF strike pilots back if it were done soon enough (in terms of our ex-pilots still being youthful enough)

After all the lifestyle in NZ is great. Their families would largely be in NZ too so that would be a draw back to this country.

Also, if recruiting started again for strike pilots I'd bet people would be lining up - after all we'd have to have new strike aircraft - say F16's, which would mean kids would be re-inspired . In my days of being recruited most of the recruiting across all the technical trades, flying and non-flying, came about because kids wanted to fly Skyhawks. I was amazed how many people I joined with who'd tried initially to be a strike pilot and gone through the selection (I didn't). When they failed selection the recruiiters would then say "sorry... but the RNZAF still wants you, why not be a mechanic - or avionics - or navigator..."

That was one of the A4K's primary roles and why they had an awesome formation display team, Kiwi Red, for recruiting purposes. No-one wants to join something that doesn't inspire them or look like it has a hope for the future. When we joined we all thought "The Skyhawks are cool but old, they'll replace them soon and the RNZAF will get even beter" that was the feeling back then. I wonder what it's like now "What's closing next..."

And the Government wwonders why they cannot retain and recruit staff now for this country's once great Air Force.

I won't vote for either National or Labour (or fringe psycho parties like the Greens, the Maori Party, Act or CHP). I am still undecided but I may go the same way as last time, and stay in bed on Saturday! That's the best choice in my eyes.

[corsair67]

Dave, you're probably right about pilots coming home to NZ if the Strike Wing was re-instated in the future; although I guess it would depend on how long they're signed up to their current 'employer'. Comrade has gutted the RNZAF by scrapping the Strike Wing, and then the pollies wonder why they can't get people to join the RNZAF!

Well, all I can hope for now is that in my next life I will get to be a fighter pilot in the RNZAF (maybe, a combined ANZAC air force?)!

[stephen]

A combined Anzac Strike squadron was promised by National in the last election. This time they made no committement at all for some form of air strike cabability. A leased strike wing is affordable ...but sadly there are no votes in defence. At the very least the p3s which are an excellent stand of platform should be equpped with long range air to surface missilesThis could be done for about 50 mill

[turboNZ]

I thought the P-3's had Sidewinder capability, but guess that's more air to air......hmmm can't think of many occasions an Orion would need to be a fighter.

[Dave Homewood]

The Orions carry torpedoes and always have. Since the Skyhawks were decommissioned they upgraded the Orion weapon status to carry bombs too, I was told by an Air Force mate. Not sure if they have been modified to carry Sidewingers in this country. They could strip the gear necessary from the A4K's befor they go I suppose, as a training company won't need air to air defence missiles, will they?

[turboNZ]

I remember reading that the P-3's can be fitted with a sidewinder under each wing, outer of the No 1 and No 4 engines.

[corsair67]

That'd be a fun experience, being in a P3 whilst mixing it with Su27s etc, because you have no fighter aircraft to protect you.
One of the more bizzare suggestions to come out of the Defence Dept in Canberra is to arm the AP-3Cs with stand-off weapons once the F-111s are retired to help fill the capability gap until the F-35s come on line. The AP-3C is an extremely capable aircraft, but again, I wouldn't want to be onboard one that is forced to run the gauntlet of a later-generation Russian-built fighter CAP.

[stephen]

true true...but the suggestion to arm the orions with stand off missile is not new. Prime Minister Muldoon got very close to arming them with Harpoons in 1983 after the Faulklands war.
He was so taken with the effect of the exocet on the Royal Navy that he even visited the Lockheed factory in california for discussions. Lockheed presented him with a model
Orion in kiwi markings with a Harpoon on each wing. (same as the aussie ones) After his death Lady Muldoon presented his large aircraft model collection to Motat. New generation stand off weapons fire and forget have a range of 80nm so it might be possible to get in low launch and get the hell out!

[corsair67]

Yes, but an F-111 could be long gone before the enemy knew what hit them, whereas an Orion could be caught on the way in/out very easily. Not only because of the speed difference, but an Orion's radar cross section is a hell of a lot greater than a Pig's.

I'm surprised that Piggy didn't have NZ 'thinking big' and producing our own range of SOW (pun intended!). I imagine you'd feel very patriotic when you saw enemy ship/bridge/building being taken out by a Rangiora or a Rangitoto missile!

[stephen]

The F-111 is going to be retired early...big mistake ...after all how old are the B52s. In 1979 I was living for a short time on Waiheke Island and just missed the crash of one and ejection of the crew capsule into the sea beside the island. That would have been a sight!

[corsair67]

Yep, Howie and Co want them gone by 2010. For quite some time there was talk that 2010 actually meant 2006/7, but the Robert Hill (Defence Minister) recently confirmed that ther F-111s will still be around until 2010. I personally think they will be around longer, but we'll just have to wait and see. At one stage the Defence Science and Technology Organisation was looking into re-engining the Pigs with newer engines (just as the USN did with their TF-30 powered Tomcats), which would have brought greater fuel efficiency and maintainence savings for the F-111 fleet. There's nothing wrong with the structure of the Pig, they were over-engineered anyway to be possibly operated from carriers by the USN> How many aircraft do you know of that can suffer an in-flight fuselage fuel tank explosion, and still make it back to base for a safe landing (as happened to a RAAF F-111 a couple of years ago)?

The RAAF has still got the escape capsule from the F-111 (A8-141) that crashed off Waiheke Is on the 26th October 1978; it's used for safety training and is taken around the country to various airshows by the RAAF, and it was recently in Canberra for the VP Day celebrations.

[stephen]

Excellent update in the september australian aviation magazine on the agm 142 and the F-111 ...i suppose you have read it?

[stephen]

Story Time .....Orion Nuclear Depth Charges..True or false ... in 1978 or 79 nuclear subs or ships were visiting auckland twice a year. On one visit I got to know an officer from the USS Pindado (sub) and he attended my engagement party on Waiheke Island.., to cut a long story short...we showed him auckland...arranged a visit for him for a personal interview/ visit with PM Muldoon in return for a tour of the nuc sub ...here's the true or bul..sh...He assured me that a the height of the vietnam war he understood tactical nuclear weapons (navy i understand)were stored for a short time in NZ( Kauri Point)...A contact in the navy who spent some time there also confirmed (after substantial whisky!) this....I'm not sure?? at the time it seemed credible... who knows?

[corsair67]

Hi Stephen,

Yes, I did read the article about the AGM-142 (finally!) coming into service: has been a very protracted purchase and acceptance process for this missile.

The Defence website has some good photos of the ARDU F-111 test aircraft with the AGM-142 missiles on board at -

www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2005/aug/20050810.cfm

(Sorry, we've got a bit off track from the original topic, haven't we!) ;-)