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Post by phil on Jan 22, 2009 21:22:54 GMT 12
As long as you have to look hard to see the corrosion it must be ok.
Obviously only the corrosion you see easily is bad, this must be the good kind!
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Post by kiwi on Jan 23, 2009 6:31:55 GMT 12
As the Associate Defence Minister , presumably that only makes her second fiddle , be interesting to hear how the Defence Minister wriggles out of this one . If I was looking to buy these aircraft I think now I might wait till they were forced to fall back on plan B . I would be prepared to bet that with the current and still developing world financial problems , these machines will never achieve the $110,000,000 .
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Post by nige on Jan 23, 2009 7:46:11 GMT 12
Hang on a minute, if they are now in such a good condition .... then Heather Roy & co should be demanding we reactivate the RNZAF's air combat force!
Seriously we have the planes, all it needs is some money to get them fully airworthy again! If its good enough for a training company to use them "hard", then it should be good enough for us until we can acquire some second hand F16's!
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Post by paddy on Jan 23, 2009 7:53:16 GMT 12
Anyone like to guess how much it will cost to get them airworthy again. I suspect rather more than the pollies would wish
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 23, 2009 10:18:15 GMT 12
Considering that President Obama is planning to pull out of the Iraq war and no doubt scale down military operations as a result, will there actually be these projected military contracts that the potential buyers think they have?
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Post by flyinkiwi on Jan 23, 2009 10:40:59 GMT 12
There is definitely something going on that we are not privy to that was strong enough for Roy to do a public about face. That information must be pretty important for her to cash in pretty much all of her political credibility.
I just hope it wasn't something trivial like a plum position in cabinet or a free overseas trip.
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Post by vgp on Jan 23, 2009 10:57:12 GMT 12
Considering that President Obama is planning to pull out of the Iraq war and no doubt scale down military operations as a result, will there actually be these projected military contracts that the potential buyers think they have? Side ways shift if any of the pre-US election news items(BBC early morning etc) are anything to go bye- concentrating on/moving focus to afghanistan.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 23, 2009 15:25:13 GMT 12
I was there when Heather Roy was inspecting the Skyhawks. Two were opened for her, a single seater and a two seater. Interestingly, the two days leading up to to her arrival, some ground staff were touching up the latex coverings, replacing some plastic and airing all of them out.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 23, 2009 15:33:25 GMT 12
Some photos. I did not take these ones. The day of the visit. Heather Roy inspecting the Skyhawks
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Post by corsair67 on Jan 23, 2009 15:48:59 GMT 12
Yep, I can't see any sign of corrosion in those photos either! ;D Good to see that all over spraylat coating still looks completely watertight too.......
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Post by kiwi on Jan 23, 2009 17:38:02 GMT 12
Cynical bugger .
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Post by corsair67 on Jan 23, 2009 18:09:12 GMT 12
Cynical - me? No way. ;D
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Post by 30sqnatc on Jan 23, 2009 18:13:40 GMT 12
Interestingly, the two days leading up to to her arrival, some ground staff were touching up the latex coverings, replacing some plastic and airing all of them out. Were they perhaps concerned they weren't doing their job properly before the visit was arranged Paul
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 23, 2009 20:11:03 GMT 12
Anyone like to guess how much it will cost to get them airworthy again. I suspect rather more than the pollies would wish I did some rough estimates last year - NZ$30-40M to get all 17 Skyhawks flying again and 2-3 years (with fully functional Kahu avionics, all Check and Group servicings up to date and all corrosion and structural issues addressed). That was at a good $US exchange rate, but given the now poor rate my estimate could be well short - a lot of the Avionics is going to have to be sent to the US to be repaired and upgraded to a supportable state. Safe Air don't have the expertise or facilities to do it alone and will need considerable help from ex RNZAF Skyhawk people, either still in the Air Force or out to do it (which I don't think is realistic given the other projects the RNZAF and Safe Air are doing). Up to 10 aircraft could be regenerated within 12 months with a big effort, but getting the remaining 7 up and running I don't believe is realistically doable no matter how much money you throw at them. To get all 16 Macchis fully serviceable and all IRAN inspections up to date, NZ$15-20M and it will take 2 years (again depending how much money and people they throw at them 10 is achievable within 12 months). Obviously the longer this drags on the more it will cost, the longer it will take and the harder it will be to achieve given that neither aircraft (and most of their systems) is supported by the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) any more. They are basically unsupportable orphans (and were 7 years ago when they were retired)!
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Post by FlyNavy on Jan 23, 2009 20:48:37 GMT 12
Don, do you plan to have a chat with Heather? Might be worth a try to at least let her hear/have a reality check.
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Post by harvard1041 on Jan 25, 2009 14:47:48 GMT 12
The entire sale - in my humble opinion - is and has always been a joke...perpetuated by a couple of self-serving interests....Ernst & Young chief amongst them.
The A-4s were a great credit to all the hard working and clever people who kept them going and flying for the 30 odd years of RNZAF service ( I was on the original Kahu team and worked them for a number of years - great times) .....but..
...by 2001 they were of marginal use to anyone else - KAHU really made them very different to all other A-4s...and the effort to keep them going was really only manageable to an airforce...which neither of the 'new Customers' were...and that window of opportunity has long since gone...well gone.
Great aircraft - but give them to Museums and move on...
Rgds Hvd1041
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Post by kiwi on Jan 25, 2009 16:32:23 GMT 12
Well said , but too blatantly obvious for politicians .
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Post by sqwark2k on Jan 25, 2009 20:06:33 GMT 12
Some photo's of the skyhawks from last week. I also managed to get into 1 hangar where the 3 remaining frames are stored, in much better condition too. Another difference to this time last year is the extra security features of the skyhawk compound. Coiled barbed wire half way up the fence and the compound is lit up at night by over a dozen halogen lamps. Can't say I'd think a security threat was current.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 25, 2009 21:04:03 GMT 12
Security threat? There's the ever present temptation to taggers, all that whiteness to tag on.
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Post by shorty on Feb 4, 2009 10:59:39 GMT 12
Skyhawks damaged by elements NZPA/Dan Hutchinson | 04 February 2009 09:07am .
The air force's 17 mothballed Skyhawk jet fighters are being damaged by being kept outside, the Government has confirmed.
The Skyhawks were decommissioned by the Labour Government in 2001 and are waiting to be sold.
They have been stored with a protective covering in the open at the Woodbourne air base, near Blenheim.
However, associate Defence Minister Heather Roy said the aircraft had been damaged by the weather.
"There is a little deterioration but no more than you would expect under the circumstances," she said.
Since the Skyhawks were moved out of a hangar and into the open in December 2007, the previous Government said the protective latex coating had worked and there had been no damage from the elements.
The Skyhawks were sold for $155 million to an American company but the sale had been held up by the US State Department, which must approve any sale of aircraft with American military avionics.
The Skyhawks may be old but they had been fitted with modern avionics, similar to the avionics in American F16 fighters.
The Skyhawks were to have been replaced by F16 fighters and a deal had been agreed to by the National Government before it was ousted at the polls by Labour in 1999. The new Labour Government axed the deal Last October the air force said rainwater had got into four of the 17 Skyhawks.
Parachute packs got damp and some instruments were a bit wet so components were removed and serviced.
The air force said there was no damage or impact on the sale or resale value of the aircraft.
In August, then defence minister Phil Goff confirmed some of the latex protective coverings had been torn in a storm but there was no damage.
Defence Minister Wayne Mapp said the sale of the aircraft was "progressing".
"That issue is largely going through the State Department and the Defence Department in the United States. It's an ongoing process," he said last week.
The delay of nearly seven years in the sale of the aircraft was the work of the previous government, he said.
"Frankly when they said they had been sold they did not really say there was a whole lot of conditionalities around that. You have also had issues with the change of administration," Dr Mapp said.
The air force's 17 Aermacchi training jets had also been on the market since 2001 but they were regularly flown to keep them airworthy.
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