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Post by corsair67 on May 17, 2009 21:23:02 GMT 12
Oh. I wish Phil Goff was still around to explain that one!
"The suggestion that there is a plastic bag covering the tail of one of the Skyhawks is completely false and untrue. The latex covering is completely intact, and still looks as good as the day it was applied. Any modifications that have taken place since 2001 have been done to international military standards.
The Skyhawk sale is still going ahead, and the Skyhawks ought to be leaving our shores at 10am tomorrow morning."
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Post by FlyNavy on May 17, 2009 22:59:07 GMT 12
Straight from the GOFFER hisself: "Any modifications that have taken place since 2001 have been done to international military standards." Plastic bags (see thru) are in!
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Post by motoxjase on May 23, 2009 6:33:37 GMT 12
I noticed that a company called Calspan Bicycle Works has taken on charge 4 out of an order of 5 F16 block 25s to be used along with 2 F-5s and has work with the US Navy ready to go. Now with the USAF retiring 250 legacy fighters in 2010 which the majority being F15s and F16s I just cant see any company wanting to buy our out-dated Skyhawks when F-16s are in supply, have tons of spares and back-up and still are a capable, modern fighter. Another company has also brought two SU-27s from the Ukraine and plans to use them in the Aggressor Training role so where does this leave our 50s vintage design Skyhawk??...hopefully in musuems arond NZ
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Post by corsair67 on Jun 26, 2009 15:35:07 GMT 12
But wait, there's more........... By "year's end" - which particular year? From Guide2.co.nz - www.guide2.co.nz/politics/news/skyhawk-sale-situation-likely-to-be-clear-by-year039s-end/11/8948Skyhawk Sale Situation Likely To Be Clear By Year's End Thursday, 25 June 2009 - 2:57pm. Wellington, June 25 NZPA - It should be clear by the end of the year whether New Zealand's mothballed air force Skyhawk jets will head to the United States. The 17 jets were put up for sale after the Labour government decommissioned the air force's combat wing in 2001. A private United States company last year tentatively agreed to buy them and 17 Aermacchi jets which were also made redundant, but the process has been stalled because the transaction needs US government approval. In a foreign affairs, defence and trade select committee meeting today, associate defence minister Heather Roy said the process of approval was dragging on, but it should be clear by the end of the year whether or not they would go to the US. Ms Roy later said if approval was granted, the Government and the company in question would then need to go through a negotiating process. If the sale fell through the Government would have to explore other options, including selling the two types of aircraft separately. Interest had been shown from potential overseas purchasers, she said. The Skyhawks have been stored outdoors covered in a protective latex coating and Ms Roy said she had recently inspected them. Rain had managed to seep into some of the cockpits and there were small signs of corrosion as a result, but they generally appeared sound. "It looks like they are in good condition for sale," she said. Meanwhile, Ms Roy and Defence Minister Wayne Mapp will launch a public consultation document for a review of the Defence department tomorrow at Te Papa museum in Wellington.
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Post by beagle on Jun 26, 2009 20:23:11 GMT 12
Meanwhile, Ms Roy and Defence Minister Wayne Mapp will launch a public consultation document for a review of the Defence department tomorrow at Te Papa museum in Wellington.
yep, what a giggle. A Defence Dept review being conducted at a musuem.
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 31, 2009 22:03:11 GMT 12
Heather Roy practising her craft: 21 Jan 2009
"The new New Zealand associate defence minister Heather Roy is briefed on the sale of the RNZAF's air combat strike fleets (A-4K Skyhawks and Aermacchi trainers)."
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Post by motoxjase on Aug 3, 2009 5:34:08 GMT 12
The A4 skyhawk that got water inside its cockpit was taken out of the cage and all its Avionics were fired up and its Radar also fired up and was put into Stand-by Mode (?), all Hydralics were plumped and they could've started the Skyhawk up there and then. A mate who works on the Skyhawks reckons that they do not need a hell of a lot to get them going and that they are in excellent condition even after all these years
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Post by flyjoe180 on Aug 3, 2009 22:57:47 GMT 12
How quickly time has passed. 2001!
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Post by kiwirico on Aug 3, 2009 23:38:59 GMT 12
The A4 skyhawk that got water inside its cockpit was taken out of the cage and all its Avionics were fired up and its Radar also fired up and was put into Stand-by Mode (?), all Hydralics were plumped and they could've started the Skyhawk up there and then. A mate who works on the Skyhawks reckons that they do not need a hell of a lot to get them going and that they are in excellent condition even after all these years Perhaps you are right, but the NZ Government is a sick government..... after all those years they could make a nice gesture to for sample the Philippines to donate them! Perhaps it sound strange, but the NZ Government could show it's interest to support it's allies in the region, and had no money wasted by years of negociations with US company's who have interest (or not)...... and keep these birds in store is also time and money consumming. I really dislike the NZ way of thinking in this matter; back in 2004 the Argentine Navy had some interest (and talk) with NZ about the Macchi MB.339's...... but the NZ refused to lower the price asked for those aircraft. Now, 5 years later they are still inside a hangar I am sorry to say, but NZ Government way of thinking is very stupid! Cheers all KiwiRico
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 4, 2009 0:10:59 GMT 12
So you think that NZ should have give away its Skyhawks to the Philippines as a "nice gesture"?? What? Why? According to Wikipedia:
The Philippines' GDP is US$173.2 billion per year (2008 figure) New Zealand's GDP is US$115.709 billion per year
I think it would be a nicer gesture if they gave us a fleet of aeroplanes.
As for Argentina, I don't think any deal with that country would be looked on favourably, and I seriously doubt it was about the low monetary offers alone.
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Post by kiwirico on Aug 4, 2009 6:56:56 GMT 12
So you think that NZ should have give away its Skyhawks to the Philippines as a "nice gesture"?? What? Why? According to Wikipedia: The Philippines' GDP is US$173.2 billion per year (2008 figure) New Zealand's GDP is US$115.709 billion per year I think it would be a nicer gesture if they gave us a fleet of aeroplanes. As for Argentina, I don't think any deal with that country would be looked on favourably, and I seriously doubt it was about the low monetary offers alone. Sorry if I sound agressive ;D, it's not my wish to make enemies here among the Kiwi's! Just my frustration abouth things going on with the retired fleet of aircraft..... however..... Your comment about Argentina is obviously a lack of knowledge, as the Argentine Navy did have briefly informed the NZ Government on their interest to buy the fleet (if my memory serves me well they spoke about 14 aircraft) back in 2004 as replacement for the ageing MB.326GB fleet in Argentine Navy. However, the price that NZ asking for the aircraft was too high, and not negotiable (according to my sources). It has of course nothing to do with Britain, Malvinas/Falklands or what so ever....... And this part is not from Wikipedia About the Philippines.... which aircraft would you see at NZ...... most aircraft are grounded and in bad shape (perhaps the new F.260 trainers are of interest.......). Who knows what future brings. No hard feelings people, just continue our interest.... right. Cheers, KiwiRico
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Post by FlyNavy on Aug 4, 2009 7:28:22 GMT 12
The problem for the moment (said many times - not by me) is that there is no US State Dept. approval to transfer the KAHU Skyhawks anywhere in their present condition. One day they will be given to museums (some to fly perhaps) minus the problematic bits.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 4, 2009 9:35:50 GMT 12
Don't panic kiwirico, this is just healthy debate, not argument.
I respectfully still don't see why you would think New Zealand should just give away its assets to another country, simply because their own Air Force has been run down and abused. Would you expect Holland to do that too?
There would be no benefit, they're not close allies, they're not even major trading partners, and in reality it would probably make the Asia-Pacific region even less stable if that sort of thing went on. Plus, we cannot afford to give them away. We can't even afford to sell the flipping things at the moment.
And I still seriously doubt that NZ would sell the Maachis to Argentina even if they stumped up with the full and fair price. The NZ Govt have already turned down a couple of much closer allied nations on that sale who were offering the full price. The thing is they want to sell the two fleets together, because no-one will buy the Skyhawks by themselves without some decent low houred jets (the Maachis) to go along with the deal - that is their way of thinking. Malaysia would have been sold them in 2001 if this was not the case. My comment had nothing to do with the war quarter of a century ago. NZ has nothing against Argentina, after all they are a rugby playing nation. Not very good, but at least they give it a go...
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Post by kiwirico on Aug 4, 2009 18:22:05 GMT 12
Thanks for the message Dave, of course I know this is a healthy debate..... I do understand your argument about giving away aircraft 9or any arms) for free to close allies, we do in Holland (and Europe) the same way, although not fighter aircraft so be honoust.
However, my idea was to show what are the possibilties to get rid off the Skyhawks if sale to US in not going to happen; of course I would love to see those birds flying, prefer in military use, and when not then as a semi-military or civilian. However, i think that they are to end in some museum accross NZ, the rest will finally scrapped! Another idea could be some for the training school at Woodbourne.
As I have Argentine blood in myself, I perhaps reacted a little too emotional, sorry. You are right about rugby..... but hey..... we play good soccer (smile).
Let's hope that the Skyhawks will have a bright and better future then now......
Cheers my friend.
KiwiRico
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Post by motoxjase on Aug 6, 2009 15:24:59 GMT 12
My info from someone real close to the Skyhawks says interest in the Skyhawks is high but its the Macchis that have no real interest shown in them due to the the Viper motor. Up to last weekend I wasnt really swallowing the Goverment story but after talking to a mate who is involved with the Skyhawks at the present I got the feeling that a sale is coming and after the comment that the A4s are in really good nick and wouldnt take much to get going the chances of them going on display seems unlikely (damnit)
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 6, 2009 21:40:15 GMT 12
You are a lot more hopeful than me Jase! The cost of regenerating the Skyhawks to airworthy condition will be more than they will get for them. I've seen an old Air Force estimate to get them going again ($18M) which was about half of what I estimate it will cost (and going up by the day). The Air Force's figures didn't allow for any rectification work (eg wing spar repairs, 414 frame replacements, Avionics test facilities re-establishment, or any spares purchases). If a potential purchaser only wants 10 flying aircraft the rest could be canabalised for spares. They would never be able to get all 17 going (we didn't have enough spares for that when we flew them!). Only time will tell I guess. The Safe Air guys have got more chance of working on Brazilian Skyhawks than NZ ones in the next year I reckon
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Post by timmo on Aug 7, 2009 9:10:39 GMT 12
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Post by motoxjase on Aug 8, 2009 7:06:00 GMT 12
Hi Don, I find the whole situation rather confusing and the whole secret squirrel situation that has been going on since the 2001 just leds every-one up the merry path. Why cant the Goverment just come clean and let us know exactly what the deal is and is a sale really on the cards and if so just how much is it going to cost??? ATAC are interested and have recently offered jobs to kiwis so what is holding up the process?? We have helped out in Iraq and also in Ahfganistan so why is the State-department holding up the sale?? I say "be done with it and fling them in musuems"
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Post by Gavin Conroy on Aug 8, 2009 13:56:45 GMT 12
My info from someone real close to the Skyhawks says interest in the Skyhawks is high but its the Macchis that have no real interest shown in them due to the the Viper motor. Up to last weekend I wasnt really swallowing the Goverment story but after talking to a mate who is involved with the Skyhawks at the present I got the feeling that a sale is coming and after the comment that the A4s are in really good nick and wouldnt take much to get going the chances of them going on display seems unlikely (damnit) Funny you should say that, I have heard this being spoken about just lately as well and that is from a few people who should know but I guess we will have to wait and see. Perhaps approval is not far away but will still be a lot of work to do in order to get the aircraft flying and as we know some will be easier than others.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 8, 2009 14:02:03 GMT 12
Mr Obama seems a much nicer chap than his predecessor. Perhaps in exchange for sorting out all the hassles the US has allegedly caused he might see fit to give the RNZAF some F-16's they no longer need? Perhaps the RNZAF needs to arrange a beer party with him on the Whitehouse lawn.
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