1/32 488 Squadron Hawker Hurricane Mk IIB

[allok]

Hi Guys.

Continuing with my 488 Squadron theme, here is my Hurricane modified to represent one of the 9 Hurricanes received by RAF 488 (NZ) Sqn at the beginning of 1942.
I've used the old Revell Mk IIC, lengthened the nose and scratch-built a new cockpit. Decals are from a Spitfire sheet and I have used Tamiya acrylics. Unfortunately, the Tamiya colours are a bit dark but that was all I had at the time.
Enjoy.













Here is the complete build forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=15073

[Dave Homewood]

That looks great!!

It's interesting when you read Graham Clayton's book on 488 Squadron that a lot more Hurricanes and Buffaloes passed through the hands of the No. 488 groundcrew in their time there, repairing them for anyone and everyone.

[30sqnatc]

Fantastic modelling. Well done but point of order, I believe it is wrong to call it an RNZAF Hurricane, surely it is an RAF Hurricane operated by an RAF NZ sqn.

Paul

[alanw]

Apr 17, 2009 21:42:30 GMT 12 30sqnatc said:

Fantastic modelling. Well done but point of order, I believe it is wrong to call it an RNZAF Hurricane, surely it is an RAF Hurricane operated by an RAF NZ sqn.

Paul

Paul, you're right about it being an RAF aircraft, but to my
knowledge 488 Squadron is RNZAF as 14 Sqn/30 Sqn/31 Sqn
5 Sqn/6 Sqn etc.

It was formed at Rongotai, Sept 1941, classed officially as
an RNZAF "Infitration" Sqn. It was the first fighter sqn to be formed in the RNZAF (quoted from New Zealand in the Second
World War (official history) -The RNZAF in South East Asia 1941-42

Alan

[Dave Homewood]

Correct, No. 488 Squadron was an RNZAF squadron, formed at the request of the RAF (as we were already sending numerous pilots and air gunners, as well as ground engineers to Singapore and the region to be posted to RAF units anyway. Some of the other squadrons there were almost all kiwis but were classed as RAF. No. 488 was however RNZAF.

[30sqnatc]

Those reponses had me scrambling for the well thumbed condensed version of the bible 'RNZAF A Short History by GB. Thanks I have just been reminded of a bit of history I had forgotten. The logic of numbering our squadrons as they were formed 1, 2, 3, 4, 488 then back to 5 escapes me.

However I'm still not convinced it is correct to call the Hurricane an RNZAF aircraft as neither they nor the Buffalos, were owned (or hired like the Vampires and Vemons) by the NZ government, or were they?

Paul

[alanw]

Hi Paul

You are right about them being RAF aircraft

The 339E Buffalo's were given to 488 Squadron by 67 Squadron which was an RAF unit based in Singapore/Malaya as part of
the British Far East Air Force (NOT SEAC, that was from Dec 1943). The reality was that the "inherited" Buffalo's were close to
being flying wrecks but again Kiwi ingenuity came through and
they were flying again, ready to do battle. problem was that
488 Squadron only received their aircraft a month before the
Japanese attacks began.

488 Squadron was given to a Squadron Leader WG Clouston
to command who was a New Zealander serving in the RAF and was a Battle of Britain veteran

488 Squadron and RAF 243 Squadron pretty much bore the
brunt of the Japanese attacks on Singapore, the attrition
rate was quite high (I have to say that our pilots acquitted themselves most admirably. The pilots flying the Buffalo's actually
ended up scoring a 2:1 kill ratio but unfortunately the Japanese
had more aircraft to play with.

The Hurricanes did not reach 488 Squadron till around the middle
of January 1942 but too little too late

As Dave mentioned the RAF requested the formation, so
488 was RNZAF but because we (New Zealand) were part of the
"Dominion" we were considered to be part of/attached to the RAF and supplied RAF type aircraft accordingly (I think I have that
right)

The Venoms etc were leased as far as I know, but there are
others here who would be able to tell you better

Hope that helps

Alan

[supercoops]

Hi Supercoops Here.

That is a great model well done. I am new to the forum and looking for information about the planes of 488 and 489 sqns and I am hoping you may be able to help me. I have been sourcing diecast models of the type flown by these and other NZ sqns and as a project would like to build up Sqn sets with relevent markings. In particular at present I have acquired the hurricane 11b for 488 sqn and will need to modify this so that it does not show sqn markings as I understand that on Hurricane survived long enough to have the sqn lettering placed on them, with many destroyed before they saw active service. Would you know the serial numbers to these planes? Presently I am working on Beaufighters and am seeking pictures and other information so I can model these planes correctly. I know that 488 sqn used MKII and MKVI and that 489 sqn used the MKX with a number of variations of this model. Information on 488 sqn is the most difficult to obtain and I would like to request your assistance to gain some knowledge or to put me on to another member who could help me please. I am really impressed by your model you have reaally good modelling skills. Well thanks for your help. You can contact me either on this web site or my own personal one is which is [e-mail] Thank you and Kindest Regards

Wayne

[allok]

Apr 19, 2009 22:16:41 GMT 12 supercoops said:

Would you know the serial numbers to these planes?
Wayne

My serial info came from www.adf-serials.com/nz-serials/

[tbf25o4]

Gentlemen,

a bit of confusion reigns here!
No.488(NZ) Squadron was one of the "Article 15" Squadrons formed to retain links with the commonwealth aircrew/groundcrew contributions to the RAF's war efforts
New Zealand was allocated 485 - 490 as the Squadron numbers.
No.488 was the only one to be formed for the Far East, in reaction to the build up of Japanese activity in mid 1941.
On subsequent withdrawal from Singapore and Java the Squadron was reformed at Ohakea in May 1942 and quickly renumbered No.14 Squadron RNZAF.
The No.488(NZ) link continued as that number was used for a new squadron formed in Britain shortly thereafter. (Information from official Air history files in archives and
Leslie Hunts book "Defence until Dawn" history of No.488(NZ) Squadron

Paul

[Dave Homewood]

Where's the confusion? They were still RNZAF squadrons, attached to the RAF. Just look at their crest for one thing, all of the Article 15 squadron crests have the letters RNZAF on them.

[ErrolC]

Apr 20, 2009 10:32:25 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Where's the confusion? They were still RNZAF squadrons, attached to the RAF. Just look at their crest for one thing, all of the Article 15 squadron crests have the letters RNZAF on them.

I've noticed this previously, when I last looked at documentation that I could easily find on Art 15 squadrons, it looks like they are RAF. But as you say, the crests all have RNZAF. It's possible that the crests are technically wrong, and the 'wrong' crests got approved without being called on it, but it seems unlikely.

[Dave Homewood]

Now I'm confused.

[tbf25o4]

Hi DAve,
The Article 15 squadrons 485 - 490 where on the RAF order of Battle and were properly constituted units within the RAF. The mottos and insignia that form the squadron crests were mutually agreed between the UK and NZ governments to "enshrine" the link between the two countries. As for the crests with "RNZAF" that was post-war approval by King George VI to again acknowledge the contribution of the New Zealanders in the air war. Similarly No.75 Squadron nameplate was transferred to the RNZAF. I have seen both the RAF and RNZAF versions of the crests most of which were approved post-war.

[tbf25o4]

Dave some further info on the status of Article XV squadrons

Article XV of the Riverdale Agreement that implemented the Empire Training Scheme (EATS) on 17 December 1939 made provision for the formation of distinct dominion squadrons within the Royal Air Force's order of battle. Thus, the Australian, Canadian and New Zealand airmen trained under the scheme would serve in Australian, Canadian and New Zealand squadrons. After negotiations, a further agreement was signed on 17 April 1941 that provided for the formation of 25 Canadian, 18 Australian and 6 New Zealand Squadrons under Article XV.

Article XV was a product of the dominions' experience during the First World War. Each government wished to retain the capacity to influence the employment of their personnel and ensure they were not simply subsumed into the large British organisation. For its part, Britain was not prepared to let the large numbers of dominion personnel result in the Australian, Canadian and New Zealand governments seeking to influence strategic air policy. The British retained control of command appointments to the Article XV squadrons and of the promotion of dominion personnel serving with the RAF.

Ultimately 44 Canadian, 16 Australian and 6 New Zealand squadrons were formed. Shortages of appropriately trained personnel, combined with often obstructive RAF posting and promotions policy, meant that early in their existence many of the Article XV squadrons were devoid of their national character and virtually indistinguishable from ordinary RAF squadrons. By the end of the war, however, most Australian squadrons had developed a distinct national character. The bulk of Australian EATS graduates, however, did not serve with the Article XV squadrons but with a mainstream RAF squadron.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Paul. I've read and heard so much on this issue over the years and it is a confusing one. The last time it was discussed the conclusion was they were RNZAF squadrons. However I'm more than happy to admit that this is wrong because I know that you know your stuff. Sorry for confusing the issue.

[tbf25o4]

Dave,
always prepared to compromise!
The confusion probably arises from the fact that as you say the crests had the words Royal New Zealand Air Force on them to show the relationship between the UK and the respective Dominion countries who provided airmen under the Empire Air Training Scheme.
From the purist technical point of view they were on the RAF Order of Battle with operational control exercised by the RAF as pointed out in the information above.

Cheers

Paul

[Dave Homewood]

Isn't it true that there was a unit called RNZAF London, I think based either at New Zealand House or somewhere nearby in Haymarket, that had overall control of Royal New Zealand Air Force personnel who were attached to the RAF, and could over-ride any RAF order that the kiwis didn't agree with? I believe Keith Caldwell commanded the unit late in the war, and New Zealand's High Commissioner to London, Bill Jordan, worked closely with it, visiting RAF stations to check on the New Zealanders' welfare. I'm not saying that this unit had command of the squadrons, but the individuals from NZ within. Is that right? I've been told a few stories where really dumb orders came through from RAF high command so the kiws got their London attache to over-ride them, probably with the threat that they'd pull the kiwis out of the unit if need be.

[ErrolC]

Apr 20, 2009 13:45:42 GMT 12 tbf25o4 said:

Dave,
always prepared to compromise!
The confusion probably arises from the fact that as you say the crests had the words Royal New Zealand Air Force on them to show the relationship between the UK and the respective Dominion countries who provided airmen under the Empire Air Training Scheme.
From the purist technical point of view they were on the RAF Order of Battle with operational control exercised by the RAF as pointed out in the information above.

Am I correct in thinking that the status of the Australian and Canadian squadrons differed (from the NZ squadrons), at least in how they were referred to (if not practical control)?
See for instance www.awm.gov.au/events/conference/2003/clark.asp

[30sqnatc]

Wow, great thread. I've learn't a lot.

Dave may I suggest this somehow needs to go in the appropiate RNZAF history section. Who would think of looking under modelling.

Paul