The kids of today...

[Dave Homewood]

A lot of people who look back to the young men and women of the World Wars and think how willingly they sarificed so much to go off and fight to defend their country, often say that the kids of today would not do the same thing.

I have been thinking about it though. Perhaps kids and younger people - in fact everyone - today are not so fooled by patriotic fervour and propoganda as the more naive generations of 1914 and 1939 may have been. But perhaps if push came to shove, and New Zealand genuinely was in danger of invasion or attack, our younger generation may well surprise a lot of people.

After all, I have realised that there's not a lot of difference between an 18 year old now and one who joined the Armed Forces to serve his country in 1940.

Having talked to many veterans, it seems they all liked fast cars and parties too. The cars were not as fast then, nor the parties, but they were not as docile as we may think of our grandparent's generation.

And when war comes, if the things that people most cherish are under direct threat they do something about it. I can imagine today that if war was threatened, the Government could easily rpuse the late teens and twenty-somethings to action if they were told (as they were in previous wars) that the following things would be rationed or unavailable:
- Petrol
- Electricity
- Sugar

No petrol - no boy racers. They have to take out their angst on something, why not a fighter plane?

No electricity, or at least restricted to essential needs - this means no Playstation. Give them a real gun istead. After all, they're fully trained on the killing simulators already.

No sugar - it means rationed or even no alcohol! Also no sugar for the coffee house generation. No junk food.

Yes, i thnk these few repercussions might rial up any teen to want to fight for their freedom to get back the things they once wanted.

If not, restriction of communications due to wartoime security means..... no cellphones! Now that would be all out war, especially with the ladies!

What are your thoughts?

[turboNZ]

Hmmm....that's a very well-put opinion there, Dave.
I never thought of it like that.

I wonder if they could put a big-bore exhaust and lower the CT-4's with large chrome rims....

[Dave Homewood]

I have come across a few Cambridge people who were in the wartime RNZAF who suped up their cars into racers, and a few wild motorcycle riders too. The old people of their day probably thought they were bloody hooligans. We think of them as heroes now.

[fletcherfu24]

We will fight them on the beaches,we will fight them on the internet,we will fight them with our boxer shorts half way down our bums.............. ;D

[alanw]

Borrowed this quote from a guy on another "aviation forum"

"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"

Young people still join the services to today to serve, hopefully
in another conflict they would be open to fight and die

Having said that modern ware fare is much more destructive and fluid than previous conflicts, hopefully people would realize their solemn duty and serve.....

Except for the fact that these days you can't shoot the other guy unless they are in extreme prejudice against you and take the first shot. You can be held for war crimes

And my pet gripe is the Damn media and how they report these things

Conscription can always help....

[corsair67]

I think that if the crunch came, then they'd be joining up just like all their relatives had done in previous times.

Just think of all that danger money they can earn by being in a war zone!

[phil82]

corsair67 said:

I think that if the crunch came, then they'd be joining up just like all their relatives had done in previous times.

Just think of all that danger money they can earn by being in a war zone!

Well, I'm not a contributor to the "yoof of today' scene I'm afraid.I believe they are every bit as good as we were at that age, and probably smarter! You only have to read the UK Telegraph to see the ages of those kids taking on the Taliban on a daily basis, and look at how old they are. When I go to open days at Ohakea for example, and look at how those young fellas and fellaresses deal with the public, then I have no qualms whatsoever. They're good kids, and good on 'em! Smart, confident, the lot of them.

When I joined up in 1957,[and left in 1982!] everyone knew someone in a family who had served because it was 12 years after the war. The services don't have that link any more, but I still think they'll be there when needed.

[flycookie]

I agree with phil82. Youngster are youngsters, and too many people go sour and spend their remaining decades dumping on them instead of living their own lives. Australians are especially horrid to teenagers, with all that "pull your head in and be just like everyone else" crap. Maybe all these striney doomsayers of older generations might shut up if they remembered their own imperfections of childhood, adolescence and young adulthood.

They will ALWAYS answer the call to defend what's right, no matter their baggy short shorts, dreadlocks and loud (and foul) music. It does have to be 'right', though, as they are far, far more world-weary than all previous generations put together.

[phil82]

flycookie said:

I agree with phil82. Youngster are youngsters, and too many people go sour and spend their remaining decades dumping on them instead of living their own lives. Australians are especially horrid to teenagers, with all that "pull your head in and be just like everyone else" crap. Maybe all these striney doomsayers of older generations might shut up if they remembered their own imperfections of childhood, adolescence and young adulthood.

They will ALWAYS answer the call to defend what's right, no matter their baggy short shorts, dreadlocks and loud (and foul) music. It does have to be 'right', though, as they are far, far more world-weary than all previous generations put together.

I attended a funeral in September of a former Chief of Air Staff [1976-79] and my boss at that time, Air Vice Marshall Larry Siegart. A Funeral with the full 100-man RNZAF Guard of Honour, a very rare event these days.Larry flew Stirlings during and after D-day, and was awarded an immediate DFC for getting his aircraft back to England after being hit by anti-aircraft fire and shot at by no less than three Fw190s, one of which his rear gunner shot down. He evaded the other two by sheer flying ability. On that same day, 23 of the 117 Stirlings involved failed to come back. That's 160 aircrew ....gone...in one operation. Larry was just 20 years old at the time. He had joined the RNZAF a few days short of his 19th Birthday.

In 1953, he was the captain of the RNZAF Hastings which was entered in the London to Christchurch air race.[and won by an RAF Canberra] The aircraft was down to three engines, in a violent storm, and he landed it in Ceylon on a runway which was closed. He got an immediate AFC.

At his funeral, a former CAS and CDF, and wartime Lancaster pilot, Sir Richard Bolt, himself a distinguished pilot, said that Larry was the most naturally talented pilot he'd ever met, and that's quite a statement. And they were all very young men.

[As a matter of fact, New Zealand produced more aircrew per capita during WW2 than the UK!]

[Dave Homewood]

Having seen what just three weeks of training did for the lads of the Bad Lad's army programme, I'm all for CMT. I have always thought it'd do the youth some good in giving them discipline and respect as well as helping them focus on the importance of their own lives.

I agree that those fighting today are as good as those in WWII, but my main point really was not aimed at the select few who want to be in the Armed Forces as a career, but the masses of youth who might be asked to do their bit in a war that interupts their otherwise happy civilian life, like most of our boys and girls of the world wars.

I think one big difference today is there's a very blurred area of why we fight. Most people now realise modern wars are fought on behalf of businessmen like Bush and Bin Laden for their own interests rather than the actual fighting for freedom or country against genuine tyranny like Hitler's mob.

[flyjoe180]

Bad Lads Army was a good example of how military touch can sort out even the worst members of society before they end up in a permanent life of crime and drugs. That was 1950's training though, would modern military training have the same effect do you think?

During my time with NZ Cadet Forces I saw many what you would term 'bad' kids come though the system (some on recommendation of the NZ Police) and many of them, given responsibility for themselves and for their comrades, developed into people with a purpose and respect for others. The Cadet Corps especially is good for these types of youth I believe, rather than the ATC or Sea Cadets.

[kiwi]

I have a feeling not much has change really ,I think the same things will drive our young people as they have done in the past . But I also believe we tend to look back with rose coloured glasses . I worked for an old guy who had been in the Airforce in the Pacific and he told me that they had just been through the Depression and here was a chance to travel and it was all a big adventure and thats how it started from his point of view . He also told me he knew one of our war heros who left for the war not too far ahead of the local Police who had been interested in having a word with him about some high speed car chases. Another guy I talked to was recovered from Dunkirk and was horrified to discover back in England at that time , well after the start of the war , that the population was still not fully behind the war . He told me that business people , and property owners were still wanting to come to some sort of aggreement . The working classes were more inclind to fight . I had believed that by that time The British were committed but it appears that that was not quite so clear cut even by the time of Dunkirk .