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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Aug 13, 2009 23:15:41 GMT 12
At the airshow held for the official opening of the redeveloped Napier Airport in 1962 or 1963 (completion of sealed runway allowing NAC F.27 Friendships to begin replacing DC-3s) something took off using JATO bottles. I was about 8 or 9 years old and I'm fairly sure it was a RNZAF Hastings transport, but it was a long time ago and the memory can play tricks. There was a USAF C-130 Hercules in attendance, but I don't think it was the transport aircraft that used JATOs for the takeoff. Whatever it was, it was really spectacular.
So, can anyone confirm if the RNZAF used JATO bottles on their Hastings transports?
BTW, one other thing I can definitely remember from that airshow was the display by a RAF Vulcan bomber that must have been visiting NZ at the time. I presume it flew over from Ohakea and returned there after its display.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 14, 2009 0:38:19 GMT 12
Bruce, the US Deep Freeze Hercules did use JATO's when operating on the ice, they used to have a couple of spent ones as 'ornaments' either side of the entry door to the Wigram Armourer's section. I have never heard of RNZAF aircraft using JATO so I'm interested to see if the Hastings did so.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Aug 14, 2009 0:51:18 GMT 12
Bruce, the US Deep Freeze Hercules did use JATO's when operating on the ice, they used to have a couple of spent ones as 'ornaments' either side of the entry door to the Wigram Armourer's section. I have never heard of RNZAF aircraft using JATO so I'm interested to see if the Hastings did so. I carried out a search using Google and found several articles with mention of RAF Hastings transports using JAFO, so that shows Hastings could use them. But I couldn't locate any reference to RNZAF Hastings transports using them. I'm fairly sure it was a piston-engined transport that took off from Napier during the display and lit-up the JATOs immediately after lift-off, but it was a long time ago (more than 45 years) so I cannot be 100% sure it was the RNZAF Hastings transport allowing for memory inaccuracies over such a long period of time. |
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Post by camtech on Aug 14, 2009 9:55:28 GMT 12
Dave, I would agree and state emphatically that RNZAF Hastings did not use JATO. It is most likely a Deep Freeze Dak or Neptune. If someone could confirm a date, I'll check my old AHSNZ journals. I have found reference to the air force having an open day, but that was low key as part of Exercise Reflex 1, November 1962
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Post by phil82 on Aug 14, 2009 9:56:19 GMT 12
Bruce, the US Deep Freeze Hercules did use JATO's when operating on the ice, they used to have a couple of spent ones as 'ornaments' either side of the entry door to the Wigram Armourer's section. I have never heard of RNZAF aircraft using JATO so I'm interested to see if the Hastings did so. I carried out a search using Google and found several articles with mention of RAF Hastings transports using JAFO, so that shows Hastings could use them. But I couldn't locate any reference to RNZAF Hastings transports using them. I'm fairly sure it was a piston-engined transport that took off from Napier during the display and lit-up the JATOs immediately after lift-off, but it was a long time ago (more than 45 years) so I cannot be 100% sure it was the RNZAF Hastings transport allowing for memory inaccuracies over such a long period of time. I nver heard, of any application of JATO on an RAF Hastings, and I'd put money on it that none of the four RNZAF Hastings were ever fitted with the device. The USN Deep Freeze operation at Christchurch operated a Dakota R4D, and I recall it visiting Ohakea once[ in fact I have a photo of it when I get my slides back!], and they were certainly equipped for JATO. The only time I ever saw it used for real was an American C130 at Ohakea, and the take-off and climb was something to behold, as was the smoke and the noise! When I was at the College of Knowledge at Whenuapai, the whole course watched a demonstration put on by the armourers of the burning of the propellant only, and boy was that a fire! Short-lived, but ferocious. We must have had some JATO in store at some time, but possibly for another air force. |
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Post by camtech on Aug 14, 2009 10:05:16 GMT 12
Found a report - Hawkes Bay Airport opened 15 February 1964
No mention of a JATO take off, but a number of aircraft that were at the Air Force display at Ohakea were present: - Hastings WJ 324, Brittania XL657, Victor XM716, C130 55-38, C54Q Bu56528, plus Vampires and Canberra displays.
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Post by phil on Aug 14, 2009 12:26:57 GMT 12
The (empty) JATO bottles are still around too, at Ohakea.
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Post by paddy on Aug 15, 2009 8:15:11 GMT 12
When I was at the College of Knowledge at Whenuapai, the whole course watched a demonstration put on by the armourers of the burning of the propellant only, and boy was that a fire! Short-lived, but ferocious. We must have had some JATO in store at some time, but possibly for another air force.
I too burnt one whilst on my Armourers course in 1975 (along with blowing up various other explosives). Very impressive. We had JATO bottles at Ohakea for the Skyhawks. I think they either mounted on the Speedbrakes or very close to them. The story went that the knucks refused to use them as if one went off and the other didn't the results would be interesting to say the least.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Aug 15, 2009 23:54:09 GMT 12
Found a report - Hawkes Bay Airport opened 15 February 1964 No mention of a JATO take off, but a number of aircraft that were at the Air Force display at Ohakea were present: - Hastings WJ 324, Brittania XL657, Victor XM716, C130 55-38, C54Q Bu56528, plus Vampires and Canberra displays. There was definitely a JATO-assisted takeoff at that airshow. It's one of those things that if you see it, you never ever forget it, because it is that spectacular. I can remember all my classmates who were also at the airshow talking about it at school on the Monday morning immediately after the show. It must have been one of the US transport aircraft at the airshow. |
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Post by oj on Sept 1, 2009 21:13:06 GMT 12
I was at the Napier show (serving at Ohakea at the time). The word went around base that the RAF Brittania was going there and anyone could go as a passenger. It was over-subscribed. The overflow (myself included) had the option of going over in one of our DC3's, which we did. The DC3 left early and we were at Napier all day. The Brittania could not land, so only did a gentle handling display (being fully laden) and then back to Ohakea (probably some scenics on the way).
Anyway, those of us that went on the DC3 had to wear uniform. This was a huge advantage. We were at Napier long before the air show began, so went into town for a beer (11 o'clock opening in those days). We did not have to buy any. The locals kept shouting us wherever we went. Then we went back to the airport about 2 pm to watch the air display. It was very good. Then we went back on the Dak at the end. Most of us slept all the way back to base (I wonder why?). I reckon we had more fun than those that went on the Brittania; they did not see the air display or get any free beer!
Oh, I almost forgot! The JATO take-off was a Deep Freeze C130, definitely.
OJ
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Post by oj on Sept 1, 2009 21:20:44 GMT 12
Actually I am having second thoughts about this JATO take-off now. It might have been the Deep Freeze R4D that was also there.
I might have been seeing double because of the free beer!
Did it have two engines or four? I should have closed one eye.
Anyway, it was not the Hastings.
Someone else must have been there and can tell us what they saw?
OJ
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Sept 1, 2009 22:58:31 GMT 12
It was definitely a four-engined aeroplane.
And although it was a long time ago (and I was only a kid), I did know the difference between the sound of piston engines and gas turbine engines, and I'm pretty sure it was a piston engine-powered aeroplane that did the JATO-assisted takeoff.
It was certainly bloody spectacular....as I already posted, if you've witnessed a JATO takeoff, you never ever forget it....it's that impressive it leaves an indelible impression in your memory!
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Post by oj on Sept 2, 2009 22:36:16 GMT 12
Well, if was 4 piston engines that would make it one of the original Globemasters, also a possibility. They were certainly still in service then. In fact two old Globemasters brought out President Johnsons motorcade to Ohakea in 1966, and prior to that Globemasters had been at Ohakea from time to time.
Someone needs to check the archives of the local Napier newspaper at the time, otherwise we will not be able to sleep until we are certain ....
OJ
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Post by praxis on Jun 30, 2012 9:13:45 GMT 12
I'm joining this thread nearly 3 years after last post. For other purposes I have been researching material on the airshow for the opening of Hawkes Bay Airport on 15 February 1964. Some of my info is from The Daily Telegragh of 15 and 17 Feb 1964.
The new airport was officially opened by Hawkes Bay-born and raised Air Marshall Sir Hector McGregor - then Air Officer Commander in Chief of the Far East Air Force. He flew out from Singapore to Napier in an RAF Transport Command Hastings, landing at the new Hawkes Bay Airport on Thursday 13 February. The aircraft was there all during his visit. I am fairly certain there was not an RNZAF Hastings present. I wonder if at that time incipient events for the Vietnam conflict were unfolding. At the official opening Sir Hector said " I won't say that I personally arranged for Mr Robert Kennedy [US Secretary of State] to arrange a cease-fire in South-East Asia, but it worked in rather well for me, and meant I was able to come".
The answer to the "mystery" aircraft that did the JATO takeoff is that it was a four-engined Deep Freeze C54 Rescuemaster (military version of DC 4).
There were RAF fly-overs by a Handley Page Victor and a Bristol Britannia (I guess operating out of Ohakea). The C130 was USAF. The RNZAF contingent was led by AVM I G Morrison and their aircraft present included a Canberra, a Bristol Freighter, Sioux helicopters and Vampires of the RNZAF aerobatic team. The "Jetobatic" flew the finale to the airshow and the pilots that day were S/L Brian Stanley-Hunt (leader), F/L F B Flavell, F/O K R Brooking and P/O G R Lloyd
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Post by camtech on Jun 30, 2012 9:18:05 GMT 12
Sioux helicopters in 1964. My notes indicate arrival early 1965
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 30, 2012 10:41:32 GMT 12
Yes that rang an alarm bell with me too Les. It would have to be civilian Sioux's at that time.
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Post by praxis on Jul 1, 2012 19:15:44 GMT 12
You may well be correct about the Sioux. The photo in the Daily Telegraph shows two Sioux flying over a Bristol Freighter and a Vampire parked on the ground. I sort of recalled that the RNZAF got its helicopters about that time in the 1960's, and assumed (seemingly wrongly) that the ones in the photo were RNZAF Sioux. The text with the photo says that the helicopters carried the "Queen of the Air" and her maids. It seems these ladies had previously been selected in some sort of competition. She and her maids landed near the official dais and were presented to Sir Hector. I was there on the day but have no recollection of this happening. When looked back on through 21st century spectacles the concept of a "Queen of the Air" to grace an airshow and be presented like debutantes seems decidedly, shall we say, quaint.
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Post by krakastaka on Aug 11, 2012 14:57:06 GMT 12
We did have jatos for a wee while. I had to learn how to interpret the part number, it gave the thrust in pounds and the burn time in seconds. We had two types that I remember, for C130 and A4. If my memory serves rightly, we we ended up storing them all to the end of their lives.
There were quite a few rules on their use, particularly that of lot numbers, we we to only use a single lot per aircraft. There was scuttlebutt going round in my early days of differing thrusts generated on each side (A4 in particular, which took one each side) causing an uncontrollable torque situation. The A4 had the mounting fittings on the dive brakes on each side of the fuselage. The ones for the A4 were about 6 or 7 ft long 10 to 12 inches in diameter, burned for about 14 seconds (stand to be corrected, may be longer) and generated either7000 or 4000 lb thrust each. a very long time ago for the auld grey matter.
I believe we didn't use them due to the prospect of differing thrust.
As for the Sioux, I was always under the impression that 64 was the date of entry into RNZAF inventory, delivery/service will vary from that date I guess. Again, a guess.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2013 15:36:07 GMT 12
The first three RNZAF Bell Sioux helicopters were delivered to Whenuapai from the USA on the 17th of December 1965.
So does anyone know which two Sioux on the civil register would have been at this event please?
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