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Post by Barnsey on Apr 30, 2017 20:17:03 GMT 12
The RAF currently has no maritime patrol capability, and is looking at 3 aircraft, the P-8, C-130J Sea Hercules, and the P-1. The P-8 is quoted at $US250 million, the P-1 at $US140 million, with the C-130J somewhere in between. isc The RAF has bought the P8, 9 of them in fact.... Nige, I fear you have missed the sarcasm! And I don't think many in the RNZAF would take their life planning advice from a bulletin board.
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 30, 2017 19:57:34 GMT 12
Cmon OK, you loved Ohakea!
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 30, 2017 18:45:27 GMT 12
Yep, unfortunately not. Whenuapai needs another 3-4000 feet added to it.
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 30, 2017 13:58:48 GMT 12
I agree with all that. Additionally, active sonar buoys can be used for an overt search by the MPA if required - not just passive detection of the sub's signature or sonar. However, it's the same detection problem for every future maritime patrol aircraft and it's the same problem set as currently faced by the P3. The P8 carries the same sonobuoys as the P3, but has twice as many. The designers understand the problem! The P8 is a different beast in terms of a preference for medium/high altitude search, but if the RNZAF purchase it they'll have the benefit of a doctrine refined by the USN, RAAF and RAF. Who wants to be smashing around at low level for extended periods in the weather and turbulence anyway? Let the radar, IRDS and eyeballs do the work from where the visible horizon is better, then drop down to low level to rig the contact, and then loiter back at high level to coordinate the rescue. According the marketing blurb, "the aircraft has same range and loiter time as its predecessor - 1,200nm with four hours of loiter - but the P-8's higher cruising speed enables it to transit the distance in 1.5 hours instead of 2.5, which allows the orbit to be maintained with two P-8s instead of three." Food for thought.
The approaches to Auckland are protected by the Great Barrier Island hydrophone array. Early warning sorted, and just a quick dash from Whenuapai! (seriously tongue in cheek, but it's there)
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 30, 2017 12:41:53 GMT 12
Jeff, were you a fishhead? I only ask because I wasn't, and I'm getting into areas that weren't my expertise so I hope there's no 'egg-sucking', however I don't think your claims about the P8 lacking an ASW capability are true.
ASW is primarily conducted with sonobuoys (either active or passive) to locate, track and prosecute the sub. This is the same on both the P3 and the P8 (and the unflown, untested C130 MPA). From that point of view nothing has changed. There is no doubt that a sub is a difficult object to pin down when it is under water. Intelligence, a sonobuoy grid, or a lucky sighting either visually or on radar hit on the surface will get the MPA asset looking in the broad area, at which point a sonobuoy search pattern is used to triangulate the sub. In this regard, the P8 has a more modern and capable acoustic processor, and we will be able to join in the upgrade path offered by the USN and allies. Unlike the P3, USN and allied P8s don't have a Magnetic Anomaly Detector, in part to a weight saving drive - this is a low level sensor and relies on a near overflight to trigger. The P3 boys would either drop sonobuoys after it triggered and/or commence a low level MAD pattern to locate the sub. Apparently the improvements in the P8 acoustic processor makes the MAD capability redundant (however I guess the Indians are sufficiently cautious to include it on theirs for shallow water ops) The P8 has a hydrocarbon sensor so they can fly up the the diesel fumes trail left by a diesel-electric sub.
The P8 has internal torpedo and depth charge capability, so is able to prosecute sub-surface targets itself. The anti-sub drone is still to be fielded by the USN, but this is an additional ASW capability to the inherent ASW capability in the P8 (I imagine for high risk / contested ASW).
I have a little better idea of ASuW tactics by aircraft.... I hope the RNZAF invests in the Harpoon for the P8 to significantly enhance the NZDF's anti shipping capability, and takes advantage of the P8's radar, JTIDS and ESM capabilities.
For SAR, it has a great radar, IR and EO camera, visual search windows and can fly low level if needed.
Th MQ-4C Triton UAV is being procured by the USN and RAAF for broad-area persistent surveillance capability and to work in concert with the P8. Probably a capability that the NZDF should invest in, but capability vs cost at play.
SC-130J: On paper only P7 / P3 Orion 21: Cancelled Nimrod 2000: Cancelled Kawasaki P1: Being considered.
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 29, 2017 14:50:22 GMT 12
Wackett A3-167 - The original donor aircraft *of side panel* (going by the serial number inside the side panel) A3-167 type CA-6 c/n 401 Offered for sale by CDC at CMU Narrandera on 01/10/45 with Engine 2387. Sold to RNAC for 250 Pounds 10/45. Registered VH-AGP 16/01/46 to 06/08/51. Withdrawn from use 19/12/50. Registered VH-AGP 05/12/52 to 09/03/60. Withdrawn from use. (taken from www.adf-serials.com.au/2a3.htm)
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 29, 2017 14:43:01 GMT 12
What's the primary military role of a Maritime Surveillance Aircraft...? What metrics can you supply that proves your claim that the P3 or C130 is better at peacetime surface surveillance than a P8? Are you suggesting that there is no need for military roles for the P3K replacement? It's a useful adjunct that a MSA can also do search and rescue, but that is not the primary role of 5 Sqn - sure, it's currently the most publicly acknowledged one day-to-day, but it's not the primary one. So unless the Government has decided that the RNZAF is to be reduced to a SAR organisation, the P8 is the premier MSA for now and into the future.
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 29, 2017 12:23:03 GMT 12
Great article Don. I'd love to catch up with the Draken guys some day and have a chat.
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 29, 2017 12:10:47 GMT 12
The Kiwi roundel is going to be universally recognised by a generation of US troops and airmen as the enemy all over the world...! "HOSTILE!" "No, that's the real RNZAF and they're on our side"
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Post by Barnsey on Apr 29, 2017 12:06:23 GMT 12
These announcements don't mean that the sale is confirmed. And the P8 is the best aircraft for the job, so good on them..... www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/new-zealand-p-8a-aircraft-and-associated-supportMedia/Public Contact: pm-cpa@state.gov Transmittal No: 17-13 WASHINGTON, Apr. 28, 2017 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to New Zealand for P-8A aircraft and associated support. The estimated cost is $1.46 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on April 27, 2017. New Zealand has requested the potential sale of up to four (4) P-8A Patrol Aircraft. Each includes: commercial engines, Tactical Open Mission Software (TOMS), Electro-Optical (EO) and Infrared (IR) MX-20HD, AN/AAQ-2(V)1 Acoustic System, AN/APY-10 Radar, ALQ-240 Electronic Support Measures. Also included are eight (8) Multifunctional Information Distribution System Joint Tactical Radio System (MIDS JTRS); five (5) Guardian Laser Transmitter Assemblies (GLTA) for the AN/AAQ-24(V)N; five (5) System Processors for AN/AAQ-24(V)N; thirty (30) AN/AAR-54 Missile Warning Sensors for the AN/AAQ-24(V)N; ten (10) LN-251 with Embedded Global Positioning Systems (GPS)/Inertial Navigations Systems (EGIs); support equipment; operation support systems; maintenance trainer/classrooms; publications; software, engineering, and logistics technical assistance; foreign Liaison officer support, contractor engineering technical services; repair and return; transportation; aircraft ferry; and other associated training, support equipment and services. The total estimated cost is $1.46 billion. This proposed sale will enhance the foreign policy and national security of the United States by strengthening the security of a Major Non-NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, an important force for political stability within the region. New Zealand is a close ally in the region and an important partner on critical foreign policy and defense issues. The Government of New Zealand intends to use these defense articles and services to continue its Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (MSA) capability, following retirement of its P-3K maritime patrol aircraft. The sale will strengthen collective defense and enhance New Zealand’s regional and global allied contributions. New Zealand has procured and operated U.S. produced P-3 MSA for over 40 years, providing critical capabilities to NATO and coalition maritime operations. New Zealand has maintained a close MSA acquisition and sustainment relationship with the U.S. Navy over this period. The proposed sale will allow New Zealand to recapitalize, modernize and sustain its MSA capability for the next 30 years. As a long-time P-3 operator, New Zealand will have no difficulty transitioning its MSA force to the P-8A and absorbing these aircraft into its armed forces. The proposed sale of this equipment and support does not alter the basic military balance in the region. The prime contractor will be The Boeing Company, Seattle, WA. Additional contractors include: Air Cruisers Co LLC Arnprior Aerospace, Canada AVOX Zodiac Aerospace BAE Canadian Commercial Corporation (CCC)/EMS Compass David Clark DLS/NiaSat, Carlsbad, CA DRS Exelis, McLean VA GC Micro, Petaluma, CA General Electric, UK Harris Joint Electronics Marin Baker Northrop Grumman Corp, Falls Church, VA Pole Zero, Cincinnati, OH Raytheon, Waltham, MA Raytheon, UK Rockwell Collins, Cedar Rapids, IA Spirit Aero, Wichita, KS Symmetries Telephonics, Farmingdale, NY Terma, Arlington, VA Viking WESCAM There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require approximately five (5) contractor representatives to support the program in New Zealand. There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded. All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov.
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Post by Barnsey on Feb 17, 2017 0:08:11 GMT 12
40 Sqn blackhanders could whip this up in their lunch break.....
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Post by Barnsey on Jan 31, 2017 11:26:14 GMT 12
I would imagine that is extending from 2059 to 3000m, which is plenty of length for modern aircraft departing on long haul flights.
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Post by Barnsey on Dec 12, 2016 23:11:44 GMT 12
If I had a spare 4 million......
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Post by Barnsey on Nov 23, 2016 12:47:16 GMT 12
20 year interim...!!
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Post by Barnsey on Oct 26, 2016 15:56:59 GMT 12
No flare landings were recommended mainly because "we could" but also to ensure that you had equal main gear oleo compression - the danger being that uneven compression would lead to a turning moment on rollout. Most of us would give a quick burst of power just before touchdown to reduce the sink rate, particularly at higher weights.
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Post by Barnsey on Oct 10, 2016 13:37:00 GMT 12
The centreline 400 gallon tanks didn't have their tails fitted on Kahu jets, so that the chaff and flares would remain clear when they were fired (the CMDS buckets are under the fuselage above the tail area of the tank). With a centreline tank fitted, the aft hell-hole door rests on top of the tank. Beside the forward end of the hook, you can see the rounded square blanking plate where the countermeasures buckets were loaded. Luggage pod (SULC)
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Post by Barnsey on Sept 23, 2016 0:02:24 GMT 12
Night arrival to Rwy 25R at Hong Kong. Kowloon and Hong Kong Island on the left.
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Post by Barnsey on Sept 2, 2016 21:09:25 GMT 12
And apparently the tactical recognition flash is worn on the right arm under the Para wings.
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Post by Barnsey on Jul 28, 2016 5:40:22 GMT 12
It's brilliant to see an aircraft in RNZAF colours in the U.S. warbird scene. It is absolutely immaculate, and a popular aircraft at the Oshkosh warbird park. Her crew was doing paint touch up - with a fine airtist's brush to almost imperceptible scratches on the edges of the hinges of the ammo access panels!
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Post by Barnsey on Jan 26, 2016 16:08:25 GMT 12
There is a RN ship HMS Protector is visiting Lyttleton at the moment, it will be open to the public on Sunday. It's an ice strengthened ship, and has come north from a fisheries patrol down in the ice. It is the first RN visit in 80 years, 1936. isc Slight misquote above on the area the RN last visited 80 years ago. "With their support, Protector conducted a five week fisheries patrol in the Southern Ocean and was also the first Royal Navy, or UK Government, vessel to visit the East Antarctic and Ross Sea regions for 80 years." www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2016/january/25/160125-hms-protector-in-new-zealand
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