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Post by hbpencil on Mar 11, 2019 13:09:19 GMT 12
IIRC this incident is also mentioned in Alex Horn's 'Wings Over The Pacific'. It has been awhile since I read it but I recall him saying that the sea was dead flat that day which prolonged the take-off run?
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Post by hbpencil on Sept 26, 2018 21:43:33 GMT 12
IIRC wasn't Colin Gray with Al Deere in 54 sqn (Spitfires)?
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Post by hbpencil on Aug 16, 2018 13:04:42 GMT 12
I don't know what difference is between the two types of exhaust stacks in regards to the amount of glare during night flying but the individual type seen here were definitely less draggy, worth a few more mph to the top speed. Mustang51, I think baz62 isn't referring to that type of shroud but rather the (blinkers?) type situated between the cockpit and the exhausts like this one:
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Post by hbpencil on Aug 16, 2018 0:18:14 GMT 12
An interesting shot, thanks for sharing it Dave. So far as I could find out online, the serial number is for batch of MkIs produced by Gloster however there is a note that says: "Third production batch of 1,700 aircraft built by Gloster Aircraft Co, to contract 85730/40/23a. Powered by Rolls-Royce Merlin III or Rolls-Royce Merlin XX engines, driving Rotol or De-Havilland three blade variable pitch propellers. Aircraft delivered between July 1940 and August 1941, average rate of production 4-5 aircraft per day."
I believe that Hurri has a Merlin XX (I don't think the Merlin III could fit that particular type of Rotol prop? Don't quote me on that) which would make it a MkII. As for the exhausts, I'm not a Hurri expert but with the Spifire the old triple fish-tail type could, and were, be replaced like on Mackie's Spitfire Vc if I recall correctly so I imagine that has happened with V6931.
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Post by hbpencil on Jul 14, 2018 15:53:48 GMT 12
Hi John, The one photo I've seen of a 486sqn Typhoon in this scheme is in the book 'The Wild Winds' (which the following info is from), a history of the squadron by Paul Sortehaug. I don't have a scanner but it look's like this... taken on the ground from the aircraft's 10 o'clock and with five pilot's standing in font of it, the aircraft's code letter and serial number aren't visible (the blurb doesn't say either), however the top of the SA code is visible and appears to be red, while the aircraft isn't wearing the Temperate Land Scheme (which the RAF stopped using on its fighters in the ETO during August 1941) but rather the standard Day Fighter Scheme (Ocean Grey and Dark Green upper surfaces, along with a Sky spinner and fuselage band) with the lower surfaces completely black, painted over the under-wing roundels and the bottom part of the fuselage band as well as the bottom part of the yellow bands on the wing's leading edge. However the interior surfaces of the undercarriage covers are still the factory colour. The following profile art (of R8697) matches up well: kitchecker.com/reviews_2017_2/icm_35504_htm_files/41231.jpg486 was indeed a 'Turbinlite' night fighter squadron at first, using a mix of Mk I and II Hurricanes with the IIb being the most numerous. It received it's Typhoons at the very end of July and the beginning of August 1942 and at first continued to do Turbinlite night fighting ops (no indication of any Intruder ops, although they did a few at the end of 1943) with both Hurricanes and Typhoons while converting to the new aircraft, but on 21 August it was withdrawn from ops to focus on the conversion. The book doesn't give a hard date for when the conversion was considered complete, but given that the Typhoon was worse at Turbinlite ops than the Hurricane the squadron was turned into a day fighter squadron. Again no date for when this took place however on 27 September the squadron moved to North Weald to help combat German hit-and-run fighter bombers as well as for ops over France. Presumably the black was removed from the underside of the aircraft around this time. Here's some info about R8697: with the squadron from 4/8/42 until 3/8/43 when it went to 13 MU for repairs following a ground collision. The following aerial combat claims made with this aircraft were: 22/12/42 - F/O A. E. 'Spike' Umbers, 1/2 share of Do217E-4 bomber caught laying mines, of 4./KG40 code F8+DM, WNr.5537, crew KIA. 8/2/43 - F/L H. N. Sweetman, 1 Fw190 damaged. 5/7/43 - P/O A. N. 'Artie' Sames, 1 Fw190A-5 of I/JG2 destroyed, Yellow 14, WNr.140019, Fw. Gustav Grötzinger KIA. Hope this helps, HB
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Post by hbpencil on Jul 11, 2018 12:52:57 GMT 12
The first German aircraft to be shot down over the Normandy landings was by New Zealander Johnnie Houlton flying a No.485(NZ) squadron spitfire That reminds me that another Kiwi shot down the first German aircraft over the invasion area in the small hours before the invasion proper began: "it is of interest to record that Flying Officer Lelong of No. 605 Mosquito Squadron was the first pilot to destroy an enemy aircraft in support of the Normandy landings. Flying an ‘Intruder’ patrol over the German airfield at Evreux on the eve of D Day, he sighted and attacked a Messerschmitt 410 which went down and blew up on the ground." From this page: nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2-2RAF-c10.html
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Post by hbpencil on Jun 5, 2018 22:59:21 GMT 12
Cheers Adam, thanks for taking the time to check that book... funny you should mention it as I got myself a copy late last week! I also got a copy of Paul Sortehaug's book on 486 sqn while I was about it, which I'm quite enjoying. The following link states that the C wing could be converted to the E wing and suggests that 485 sqn did this, however I now believe you're right that they got new Spits rather than converting their existing ones. I finally dug up a copy of Johnnie Houlton's autobio 'Spitfire Strikes' and he states that at the end of April '44 they received new aircraft (which is when he got his ML407 with which he had his victories on D-Day), and although he doesn't mention the armament ML407 was manufactured that same month by which time E winged Spitfires were coming off the production line. spitfiresite.com/2010/04/sorting-out-the-e-american-armament-for-the-spitfire-mk-ixxvi.htmlHB
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Post by hbpencil on May 28, 2018 21:39:55 GMT 12
Hi saratoga, Sorry for this late reply. As I understand it the E wing was structurally the same as the C wing but differed in that it needed some mounts/braces etc to fit the .50cal and its ammo in bays originally intended for a Hispano 20mm cannon as well as changes to the plumbing for the pneumatics and heating, but other than that the rest of the aircraft was unchanged so a MkIX would still be a IX but with a different designation suffix due to its wing type. Unfortunately I haven't yet found good, solid documentary evidence of the steps needed to convert a C wing into an E or the time it would take do so. I'm under the impression that 485sqn converted it's C winged MkIXs to the E wing (as opposed to new build Spitfires with the E wing)some time prior to D-Day so I'm hoping someone here might have some more details that could shed some light on the process.
Cheers
HB
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Post by hbpencil on May 25, 2018 23:47:22 GMT 12
Hi guys,
I'm interested in the period when 485 converted it's IXc Spits into IXe's, apologies if I'm casting a rather wide net but I'm wondering if anyone here has any references/documents/anecdotes etc in regards to the time frame and any technical aspects of the conversions.
Cheers,
HB
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Post by hbpencil on May 2, 2018 13:03:17 GMT 12
Doh! I just noticed my typo, I said Dark Earth in my previous post when I meant to say Dark Green. Speaking of which, it was my understanding that the scalloped edge between upper and lower surface colours was something some US manufacturers did for a little while when the factory applied paint scheme was for a British order aircraft, and if that's correct I assume the green is (DuPont) Dark Green rather than OD? I'm just typing this out in a hurry as I'm on my lunch break; if I recall correctly, when the Kittyhawks where retired from front line service many received a repaint back in NZ (which you alluded to in your 'pt2' post) with a NZ foliage green upper and a pale blue lower (I'm saying this from what I recall briefly reading some time ago so I could be well off)... so if I am remembering correctly then could that lower surface colour be a viable option for the K in the photo?
HB
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Post by hbpencil on Apr 30, 2018 20:47:00 GMT 12
Hi David, Sorry for this reply being so late. Thanks for the info but I must confess I'm now more uncertain of the dark upper colour and the lower surface colour than I was before! Given that those two could potentially be anything I think I'll go with the safe option and leave them as Dark Earth and Sky respectively, while I will colour that underlying surface as green zinc chromate (I don't believe it peeled all the way down to the metal as it's too dull compared to those areas on the undercarriage nacelle cap which have worn to the metal). Something I didn't notice even though it was staring me in the face is that the spinner is a dark colour yet I thought Kiwi P-40s had white spinners as part of the theater markings? HB
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Post by hbpencil on Apr 20, 2018 11:38:20 GMT 12
That's very interesting David and makes a lot of sense, but it does raise a question in regards to this specific aircraft: as I understand it the Dark Earth was painted over (and the national markings of course) while the Dark Green and Sky weren't, yet here it is those last two (factory applied) colours that are flaked... was area flaking of this sort something that would occur even on a properly applied factory paint job given time? I don't know if Curtiss ever had quality control issues in this area.
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Post by hbpencil on Apr 19, 2018 20:50:19 GMT 12
Thanks for your replies I didn't have much hope of finding a definitive answer to the question of 'that' colour for the reasons David expressed but it was worth a shot, and anyway it gives me some leeway with what I might colour it; as I think about it some more I suppose it could well be a US paint, perhaps something along the lines of Neutral Grey or Intermediate Blue. Cheers, HB
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Post by hbpencil on Apr 18, 2018 19:38:33 GMT 12
Hello, Apologies if any of this has already been asked and I've missed it, however I'm interested in the photo below and have a few questions if I may: 1. If I'm reading this thread right then this aircraft is NZ3056? rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/26625/rnzaf-40-codes-matched-serials?page=12. In regards to that pale colour splashed around the underside of the wings and on the spinner, my first thought is that it could be more of the same NZ Blue Sea Grey as used on the upper surfaces. Am I on the right track? 3. Does anyone know of any copyright issues with this photo? I'd like to colourise and share it but I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Cheers, HB
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Post by hbpencil on Oct 25, 2017 22:27:55 GMT 12
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Post by hbpencil on Oct 20, 2017 22:50:49 GMT 12
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Post by hbpencil on Oct 2, 2017 17:01:21 GMT 12
In case you haven't seen it, here's the full speech by Brian Shul (the guy talking in the above vid, which is part of this speech) in which he tells some damn interesting stories.
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Post by hbpencil on Jun 30, 2017 11:17:29 GMT 12
Those photos are not working for me, does anyone else see them? I can't see them either. If they are hosted on Photobucket then it could be their new 'business model' that's the problem.
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Post by hbpencil on Jun 17, 2017 15:06:13 GMT 12
laichzeit, in case you see this bump to your thread, I've sent you a pm.
HB
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Post by hbpencil on Apr 30, 2017 11:22:02 GMT 12
Thanks for the info, appreciated.
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