Where is the traditional home of the NZ Army?

[Dave Homewood]

We all know that the RNZAF's traditional home is at Wigram, Christchurch, where Sir Henry Wigram first established military aviation.

And the traditional home of the RNZN I believe is Devonport where the Royal Navy set up base back in the 1800's.

But Where is the Army's traditional home? I mean Waiouru may be where they have the museum but those training grounds only began being used in about 1937, prior to that the main army training grounds for large scale exercises was apparebntly at Atiamuri. I would imagine the New Zealand Army must have begun its existence in Auckland? Am I right?

Additionally - Several people have told me they think the Army Museum was built in the wrong place and should be in Christchurch or Auckland. What do you guys and girls all think?

[corsair67]

I've always thought the NZ Army's tradition home would have been Trentham?

Waiouru is a long way away from most places, but at least having the NZ Army Museum there gives people an excuse to actually stop there for other reason rather than petrol, pie, drink and toilet!

[30sqnatc]

One of the traditional Army training grounds was at Rongotai then someone went a built an aerodrome there

One of the initial justifications for building the Army Museum in Waiouru was to allow it to be incorporated in the training of new recruits. This has now progressed to undertaking attestation ceremonies at the Tears on Greenstone wall. See www.armymuseum.co.nz/kiwis-at-war/remember.html

I read somewhere the Army Museum recently had an independant review of its location and marketing. If I recall correctly the main item for concern was the relatively tight demographic of visitors. The location was considered OK.

[Dave Homewood]

When I was at Wigram in July a guide was saying the Army is looking at locating a new museum at Wigram, combining with the new addition to theAir Force Museum, to keep costs down for both. So maybe the Army will end up with two musuems.

The same excuse for putting the Museum at Waiouru that you mention, to help with the training of new recruits, was applied to the locating of the Air Force Musuem at Wigram, which is why the Command and Staff College was incorporated into the Museum. However now the college has moved away (or has it been disbanded altogther?). It's no longer at Wigram anyway.

[caromeg]

Waiouru - end of story

[phil]

Command and staff is tri service at Trentham.

The army may not have started at Waiouru, but they have been there long enough now to establish the tradition, and it is pretty much the home of the army, even though most of the army don't actualy work there full time, they all start there, and have done for generations.

[Dave Homewood]

What I was really wondering is, where did the Army begin? There must be a place that the Army was established, and from what I have been told it cannot have been Waiouru.

[Dave Homewood]

According to Wikipedia the first New Zealand Army units formed in the Bay of Islands. Makes sense, the capital was Russell then i guess.

[phil]

To back up the fact that Waiouru is considered the home of the army, they established their Marae there.

But as for where it started, I'm not sure. When did the NZ army actually come into existence?

[Dave Homewood]

1840 I believe.

[phil]

I didn't realise it was that early, I thought it was still the British army at that stage, plus a lot of local militias, and units like the fencibles and forest rangers.

My Great, great + Grandfather (the first of our family to arrive in NZ) came on the Ship the Inchinon (sp?) in about 1856 and served as a Fencible. He was a retired British soldier who had served on the North West frontier before settling in NZ.

[phil]

www.army.mil.nz/culture-and-history/nz-army-history/historical-chronology/1827.htm

That's a pretty good link, although it doesn't really name places.

Looks like 1863 is a pretty good date for the regular force, although there were acts passed in 1845 relating to raising local militias, which can be likened more closely to the TF.

I thought this bit to be interesting:

1885
4 May
Cabinet agreed to “sanction the expense of 1000 well-trained men, one fourth to be Māori, for active service in Afghanistan ….”. The offer of New Zealand troops was never taken up by the Imperial Government in London.

[Dave Homewood]

I'm probably wrong, I was just remembering the title of a book I have somewhere called 'The New Zealand Army 1840-1980" so made the assumption. Didn't look out the book to check though.

Interesting indeed about the Afghanistan force offered. It's one of those places where war never goes away.

[eieio]

Widening the subject a bit, is Waiouru falling down around their ears? My son a territorial, says the assets there worth having appear to be owned by Transfield [ contractors of services] .A couple of weeks ago driving past Woodbourne base he commented that the Base looked a lot better than the army property.

[phil]

Waiuoru is a bit run down, as the army spent a few years trying to decide whether they were going t okeep it manned as a perminant camp, or cut it right back to a place they use to visit for training (like Tekapo). I think the decision has now been made to keep it, and there are programmes in place to tidy it up.

[30sqnatc]

Oct 16, 2009 7:58:52 GMT 12 eieio said:

Widening the subject a bit, is Waiouru falling down around their ears? My son a territorial, says the assets there worth having appear to be owned by Transfield [ contractors of services] .A couple of weeks ago driving past Woodbourne base he commented that the Base looked a lot better than the army property.

Owned by Transfield no, used by Transfield yes.

[Dave Homewood]

The Army Museum looks decidedly old fashioned and run down compared with Wigram now too.

[phil82]

Oct 16, 2009 7:58:52 GMT 12 eieio said:

Widening the subject a bit, is Waiouru falling down around their ears? My son a territorial, says the assets there worth having appear to be owned by Transfield [ contractors of services] .A couple of weeks ago driving past Woodbourne base he commented that the Base looked a lot better than the army property.

You simply can't provide the Army with anything comfortable! It is anathema to its culture, and beside, make them too comfortable and they might get to like it!

[30sqnatc]

Oct 17, 2009 8:31:21 GMT 12 phil82 said:

You simply can't provide the Army with anything comfortable! It is anathema to its culture, and beside, make them too comfortable and they might get to like it!

Agreed thats why the Air Force have Bases and the Army Camps - bases are permanent camps aren't