RNZAF Miles Magisters

[elvis]

Does anyone know what the camouflage patterns and markings for the two Miles Magister aircraft impressed into the RNZAF during WWII were? Cheers

[Dave Homewood]

Welcome to the forum Elvis. There is a photo of a camouflaged Miles M14A Magister, NZ586, in Aircraft of the Royal new Zealand Air Force by David Duxbury, Ross Ewing and Ross Macpherson (Heinemann, 1987) which looks to be in the standard Dark Earth and Dark Green with Sky colours, and RAF style roundels and finflash.

I don't know if this thread about the similar Hawk Major might be helpful:

rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Modelling&thread=3247&page=1

[Dave Homewood]

Actually on second thoughts, since NZ586 spent most of its wartime career with No. 2 Elementary Flying Training School, it quite possible had trainer yellow undersides rather than Sky or Duck Egg Blue.

The other Magister of course, NZ585, spent time with No. 1 (General Reconnaissance) Squadron till it was destroyed in the hangar when a Hudson crashed through the roof. I haven't a clue what colours it wore, probbaly similar with Dark Earth and Dark Green, but not sure of the undersides.

[chbessexboy]

Does anyone have a photo of an RNZAF Magister they can post please? Photos of any wartime Magisters are extremely sparse on the 'net.

[Dave Homewood]

Air Force Museum of New Zealand OhG103-41
3/4 front view of a Miles Magister at RNZAF Station Ohakea.
Oxford NZ288 in the background.

[chbessexboy]

Thanks Dave!

[davidd]

That last shot a new one on me Dave! Probably taken fairly early in the war, judging by fact that it has serial numbers on fuseleage AND rudder. Colour scheme APPEARS to be yellow overall (by comparison with Oxford on left, which is almost certainly in "silver" (aluminium) finish). Elementary tainers (those used at elementary flying training schools, EFTS) were generally finished in overall yellow from very early in the war, although there have been many photographs of them in their pre-war civilian schemes complete with original registration letters rather than RNZAF serials, but definitely in RNZAF service. I was also puzzling over that Oxford, until I realized it was simply the presence of a side window (partially visible above wing leading edge!) which I imagined was part of a letter painted thereon! Doh! Looking and thinking too hard. As most Oxfords early in the war served only with Flying Training Schools (restyled as Service Flying Training Schools, SFTS, from about March 1942 onwards) it is most likely that this just a simple "code number" showing just under the turret position. Unfortunately very difficult to have a guess as to location of this photo - Whenuapai maybe? Elementary trainers (and SFTS aircraft) in RNZAF were camouflaged in dark earth and dark green, with yellow undersurfaces from about April 1942 onwards, although they had to eventually start resorting to painting on large areas of yellow dope late in that year on SFTS aircraft, and the EFTS aircraft went entirely back to overall yellow a little later after several fatal mid-air collisions, presumed to have been victims of camouflage that was just too effective! There are not very many obvious clues on this photograph, at least to my eyes (which are not as good as they used to be).

[Dave Homewood]

Did all the EFTS Tiger Moths get camouflage in 1942, David? I have only seen one photo of a camouflaged Tiger in NZ, and that was taken in 1939 wearing the camo it came from the UK factory in.

[Antonio]

Nov 12, 2024 7:54:36 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Did all the EFTS Tiger Moths get camouflage in 1942, David? I have only seen one photo of a camouflaged Tiger in NZ, and that was taken in 1939 wearing the camo it came from the UK factory in.

Begs the question:


NelG891-44

[Dave Homewood]

Looks to be NZ708, which was built at Hatfield, UK, and was an impressed example from an aero club, and served briefly with 1EFTS and then 3EFTS but became an instructional airframe in 1940. The photo was taken 23/02/1944 at the TTS, Nelson... so yes, it does make me wonder... was it painted in camo at an EFTS or was it painted while it was an instructional airframe? Maybe used to train people how to paint camouflage?

[davidd]

So far as I know ALL training aircraft in New Zealand (except perhaps those few aircraft already in camouflage) received a fresh coat of camouflage (and yellow or "duck egg blue" (more of a green) undersurfaces) in about April 1942, with the comforting advice that sufficient dope was now available and was ready for distribution. This was the essence of a special signal sent to ALL RNZAF stations that possessed such training aircraft, including Harvards in glossy yellow). Oxfords wewre still arriving more or less monthly, and Ansons (also in camouflage) began arriving in July 1942 as this was the standard (RAF) colour scheme. The RNZAF also possessed some other generally obsolete aircraft such as the Hinds, and some Vildebeests, as well as British manufactured Tiger Moths originally intended for RAF. Within the RNZAF, all impressed aircraft were also generally painted in full camouflage at about this time, or a little later, and I presume these received the yellow undersurfaces, although possible that such aircraft as Rapides, Dragons and DH 86 Express (still in Fiji) may have carried the duck egg blue on underssurfaces, as operational aircraft. Note that there was a general trend of overspraying camouflaged aircraft such as many of the early Oxfords, and Hinds, in "silver" (aluminium) dope during 1941, when there was no threat from the Japanese, but of course this threat very soon manifested itself.

Have just discovered the document which lays out the repainting of all RNZAF aircraft in mid-March 1942. I spent ages going through my colour scheme files (actually the RNZAF's colour scheme and marking files), to locate this information, but finally found it (by accident) in with files swapped between myself and Warren Russell. Turns out this was an ADO (Air Department Order, N type, meaning temporary).

Here is the complete document.

ADO's N.30 - N.33/1942, 18/3/42 (date), Page 3.

N.31, 1942. Camouflaging of Aircraft.

All concerned are warned that it has been decided, in view of the present emergency, that all aircraft not so finished will be camouflaged at the first opportunity as follows:-

(i) Harvard Aircraft at No. 11 F.O.T.U. to be finished dark earth and dark green on the upper surfaces and duck egg blue on all under surfaces.

(ii) All Oxford aircraft, both Mk. I and Mk. II, at all units to be finished dark earth and dark green on upper surfaces and duck egg blue on under surfaces in accordance with Drawing R.M. 2026.

(iii) All Hind aircraft for No. 6 A. C. Squadron to be finished dark earth and and dark green on the upper surfaces and duck egg blue on undersurfaces.

(iv) All remaining Harvard aircraft and all Tiger Moth aircraft to be finished dark earth and dark green on upper surfaces and to remain yellow on all under surfaces. In the case of Tiger Moth aircraft, this applies to the undersurfaces of both top and bottom main planes and all interplane struts.

Drawings are now being prepared giving details of camouflage schemes and markings for the above aircraft and these will be issued at an early date together with all necessary instructions to Units concerned.

Supplies of camouflage finishes are now being issued to Units to cover their requirements and it will therefore not be necessary to demand on Stores Depots for these.

File number of this ADO, 27/1/56 DRM. (Note, DRM indicates this ADO was generated by Directorate of Repair & Maintenance).

[davidd]

The reversion to "less camouflage and more yellow" in the RNZAF was a fairly leisurly affair, which initially only affected the EFTS's (mainly Tiger Moths), after at least two mid-air collisions in late 1942 resulting in 4 deaths (pupil and instructor in each). Of course, training aircraft in SFTS's also occasionally suffered mid-air collisions, and Oxfords and Harvards went through stages of increasing the yellow proportions until in late 1943 it was decided to return Harvards and Oxfords to overall yellow schemes, but by mid 1944 Harvards at OTUs, CFS, and even SFTS's were turning over to bare metal finishes, as by this time Harvards were arriving in New Zealand from the USA in this style. So far as I know, all but the earliest Oxfords (1938 till about late 1940/early 1941) arrived in various camouflage schemes. A few of the Harvards shipped to NZ in 1944 (including 1046 and 1047) had wooden rear fuselages and tail surfaces, so these required a doped finish rather than typical paint.

Avro Ansons in the RNZAF all arrived in standard camouflage schemes (even the postwar Mk. XIIs!) and these were (in mid 1944) altered from the original dark earth and dark green to the Blue/Sea Grey and dark green scheme (the NZ version of this paint, made in Wellington by BALM), if I have remembered this name correctly!) to match the schemes of the three Hudsons which had arrived at New Plymouth at about this time. Also intersting but it seems that the earlier Ansons to arrive in New Zealand had their undersurfaces in yellow, presumably because these were requested by New Zealand for purely training purposes, although it is also possible that the makers had simply switched from the original operational finish (colour unknown) to the training scheme, possibly at the suggestion (or order) of the Air Ministry, or Ministry of Aircraft Production (MAP).

[Dave Homewood]

Great info, David. That is really interesting and useful information. I wonder why we do not see photos of Tiger Moths lined up at the four EFTS's all in camouflage.

Nov 13, 2024 10:51:38 GMT 12 davidd said:

but by mid 1944 Harvards at OTUs, CFS, and even SFTS's were turning over to bare metal finishes, as by this time Harvards were arriving in New Zealand from the USA in this style.

No. 2 (Fighter) Operational Training Unit did not use bare metal aircraft at any point as far as I am aware. Their Harvards remained camouflaged from the point were they formed (out of No. 11 OTU) till the end of the war. Harvard NZ1044 arrived from the USA in bare metal, and was painted at Ohakea into camo for its service in 2OTU. And their P-40's were in a mix of standard P-40 schemes, such as Dark Earth/Dark Green/Sky, or Olive Drab/Neutral Grey, or Foliage Green/Neutral Grey.

Nov 13, 2024 10:51:38 GMT 12 davidd said:

A few of the Harvards shipped to NZ in 1944 (including 1046 and 1047) had wooden rear fuselages and tail surfaces, so these required a doped finish rather than typical paint.

NZ1046 and NZ1047 arrived in New Zealand in July 1943. They were just behind the arrival the month before of NZ1044, would that mean that NZ1044 started life with a wooden rear fuselage?

Nov 13, 2024 10:51:38 GMT 12 davidd said:

Avro Ansons in the RNZAF all arrived in camouflage schemes (even the Mk. XIIs!) and these were (in mid 1944) changed from the original dark earth and dark green to the Blue/Sea Grey scheme (the NZ version, if I have remembered this name correctly!) to match the schemes of the three Hudsons which had arrived at New Plymouth at about this time.

The Blue/Sea Grey scheme on the Ansons would have looked fantastic.