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Post by Calum on Feb 26, 2010 23:06:07 GMT 12
As for your reference to the "only 8 NH-90" PAX UH-1H 9 NH-90 19 Troops lightly equiped UH-1H 7 NH-90 18 Troops Fully Equiped UH-1H 5 NH-90 12 So in reality we are getting the equvalent of say 18-19 UH-1H, around a 40% jump in capacity Sure, but lose 1 frame due to a U/S and you lose a much bigger portion of your force..... it's a "all your eggs in one basket" sort of thing Thats my issue with 8 only frames |
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 7, 2010 15:07:34 GMT 12
I think that with so limited airframes we can't have the same flexibility............. yes it's awsome that the NH90 has three times the payload ect............ however we still have a massive area to operate in and say you have 3 deployed 2 on police and army training and one on SAR callout........that leaves you 2 helo's free not to mention that those 2 may be in for fixing up or a maintanance check. this leaves us too thin on the ground........... 90% of the time we would also be using an NH90 for a job that may require only half of it's capibility and with only 5 A109's for training and not available to do the task instead sending out the NH90 would often be total overkill and a waste of resources and money............... this is the goverments main concern (cash) yet they still cant see that with this number of helo's they are wasting more cash in the long term? I think that in this case the previous GOV ignored any advice they were given we need more helo's.................... anyone else think this?
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Post by conman on Mar 8, 2010 16:18:14 GMT 12
Hopefully the use of the simulator will reduce the amount of training time required from the actual aircraft, would be interesting to know the planned relative sim versus actual hours planned in the A109 training program.
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 14, 2010 13:38:20 GMT 12
You still need to get out of the sim and into the real world.......... I hope that they dont cut down on the time that they get in the air because that is one of the reasons that airforce pilots are some of the best they are always out on the feild........... I hope we don't go the airline way of trying to cut costs by reducing flight time in training........... my father works for an airline now after leaving the RAF and he has told me that they cram as much into the sim as they can.... then when they get out onto the flight line they just can't seem to do it very well, were as in the RAF they threw him into the plane early on....... ( my point here is that yes the Simulator does offer a great training platform but by no means should this mean reducing the hours on the aircraft by any major figure as you won't turn out as good a group of pilots!!)
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Post by caromeg on Mar 14, 2010 14:05:26 GMT 12
I find personally Sims to be the best at maintaining procedural memory for emergency procedures and checks. Ie they are an Aid not a replacement.
Giving UH-1H to Police would be as bad as giving them to the Army! There should be one NZ Governement flying club in a country this small.
With all the numbers used in this thread it reeks of lies and statistics. One could argure that 8 NH-90s = 4 on the flight line when you take in scheduled/routine maintenance and flight line issues. Quantity does have a quality all of its own!.
As far as the UH-1H goes - yes its old, yes its dated, yes its getting hard to maintain but so is Ma Deuce. (if you dont know who she is google it).
I dont think we should be comparing the UH-1H with the NH-90 - they are different capabilities. - In 20 or 30 yrs from now - you could still use the UH-1H for something military like. According to the USAF, Hells bells, the mother of the last pilot of the last KC-135 hasn't been born yet!
As for the numbers of airframes, what we are getting is what we will have for some time.
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Post by caromeg on Mar 14, 2010 18:55:05 GMT 12
Which would make more sense.
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 16, 2010 1:15:38 GMT 12
I still mintain the view that we still need more in the number of airframes!! they say that the NZDF is being ramped up but the RNZAF just keeps getting smaller!!! And correct me if im wrong 5 A109's will do police work, training new pilots, SAR and some people are saying will have to support the NH90 due to lack of airframes!!!!!!! I know we are low on cash but would someone like to support me on the fact that we need more!!!! the A109 and NH90's are perfect for us not arguing there  |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Mar 16, 2010 6:54:21 GMT 12
If you read back through the threads I think you will find we all agree that we should be buying more of both types...
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 16, 2010 16:36:57 GMT 12
well it seems the Gov has diffrent ideas then.................  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 16, 2010 21:11:47 GMT 12
Giving UH-1H to Police would be as bad as giving them to the Army! There should be one NZ Governement flying club in a country this small But the New Zealand Police already operates several helicopters successfully. A couple of Iroquis added to their fleet would not be detrimental so long as they had the resources provided to keep them maintained. And of course the Police always get way more resources than NZDF funnelled their way. But no doubt they'd rather have a few new Squirrels instead of 45 year old wockas. |
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Post by corokid66 on Mar 16, 2010 22:34:16 GMT 12
well it seems the Gov has diffrent ideas then................. The government has not indicated anything yet, it has played its cards pretty close to its chest. Though if you do trail through what Mapp has said at times, is that they could “have a look” at more helicopters. That is not no or yes. Now, this will be all made a bit clearer after the White paper comes out. Though one thing is definitely certain in my view is that a) they are not going to start ordering any helicopters in the next 3-5 years or so – the Finance minister has effectively poured cold water on that happening, b) if more utility helicopters are going to be ordered they will be A-109’s and not NH-90’s due to cost and c) if they do get a green light to acquire more A109’s any second tranche will only have a couple more added maybe three tops. To a certain extent that is probably enough for the next decade when we consider that the post Seasprite situation sometime this decade. So there is 13 new helicopters coming in over the next 5 years and that will be a busy time for all and maybe 2-3 more A-109’s someday indeterminate and whatever replaces the Seasprite which again will be a busy time. But that is some way off. In many regards a future rotary fleet post 2020 of 20 modern helicopters 8 LUH, 8 TTH and e.g 4 NFH-90 in NZDF service would be pretty darn good and realistic. A real leap beyond what we have at present. I agree that 5 109’s will probably be not enough, but how many do we need? It would have to be a pretty convincing business case or drastic change in regional affairs to justify any more than 8 109's knowing that the Seasprite needs replacing oneday and that there are also other projects to pay for and introduce. The Govt are caught between a rock and a hard place. The are going to face a massive bill over the leaky homes disaster running into the billions - Defence is actually in my opinion one of the few areas in the government budgets that is going to get small increases over the next decade - basically because they can't afford not too. |
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Mar 17, 2010 0:26:18 GMT 12
I would argee with increasing the Amount of A109's and not the NH90's.......... but i think that there is still a possibilty that this might happen in 2-3 years......... I think that the RNZAF will realise that they needed more then originaly planned!!! i would love to hear from somone in the RNZAF what the RNZAF advised would be a good number of Helos  |
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Post by beagle on Apr 27, 2010 22:20:00 GMT 12
First one is painted in our colours  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 27, 2010 22:41:54 GMT 12
That is a very ugly helicopter now that I look at it.
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Post by lesterpk on Apr 28, 2010 0:21:11 GMT 12
That photoshop pics been around a while Beag's. The first one (actually the second frame) is out of the paintshop this week.
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Apr 28, 2010 16:33:44 GMT 12
i think that is a photoshop one...... I have seen that ages ago...... and so far i have found no pics of the actual Helo's to date.
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Post by beagle on Apr 29, 2010 16:27:45 GMT 12
That photoshop pics been around a while Beag's. The first one (actually the second frame) is out of the paintshop this week. I have been looking around for a while and got it from th agusta westland site Si I asumed it was the real deal, then again................. |
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Post by zman280 on Apr 29, 2010 17:48:07 GMT 12
Sorry forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't the A190 a very poor performing helicopter in warmer climates?
I don't understand why we aren't buying U.S. built kit. The C130, UH-1H, Bell 47, A4k, Harvard lasted us a very long time.
When it comes to operating climate why do we get every thing from Austria?
I'm not up on the prices but we could probably get Blackhawks cheaper and from my research the you be a far better machine. I don't belive that I have seen any specs for a winch on the NH90
Just my 2c so please correct me if I'm wrong
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 29, 2010 18:41:42 GMT 12
Sorry forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't the A190 a very poor performing helicopter in warmer climates? No worries there, they are basing them at Ohakea. How do they perform in bloody miserable climates? ;D |
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Post by sqwark2k on Apr 29, 2010 19:59:04 GMT 12
The blackhawk as an intital helo trainer is a bit of a leap.... you'd almost go backward transitioning to the NH90..
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