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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 7, 2010 11:10:42 GMT 12
I reckon it's time for a thread on RNZAF Tiger Moths - specifically, how many Tiger Moths are preserved in New Zealand in their RNZAF colour schemes, which ones are flying, where are they based/preserved, and is the scheme accurate to that airframe?
I'll kick off by saying I know that there are the following: - Air Force Museum of New Zealand, static, in the Atrium - MOTAT, static - RNZAF Historic Flight, Ohakea, Airworthy
I cannot recall if these wear their original wartime markings and serial but suspect they might. Who can add to this small list, and perhaps with photos?
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Post by Damon on Apr 7, 2010 21:30:47 GMT 12
I would add ZK-ALM, ZK-BLI, ZK-BUO, ZK-BRB, ZK-ASV.I saw 'ASV' at Gore in 2008.What a minter!
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Post by Richard Wesley on Apr 7, 2010 22:25:04 GMT 12
Guess I can post the Motat example in its bright yellow scheme, on display in the main hangar (I guess it is still there but there are many moves afoot at Motat at the moment so it may be up for a move?). Quoted from "Fuselage built at Cowley and shipped to New Zealand. Remainder of aircraft constructed at Rongotai from local materials. British construction number 83202. BOC Unit 18 Rongotai 25 October 1940. With No.4 EFTS, Whenuapai from 29 October 1940. With No.2 EFTS, Ashburton 1942-1944. Sold to Auckland Aero Club from No.42 Squadron on 30 January 1946 and entered the New Zealand Civil Aircraft Register as ZK-AIN. To Barr Brothers 29 September 1952 and converted to topdresser. Withdrawn from use at Ardmore during October 1958 and cancelled from the register 18 March 1965. Rebuilt using some parts from ZK-BJH and presented to MOTAT. Presently on loan to Waikato Farming Museum in Hamilton." Must be a bit of mis-information at the end I guess. Is there still a Tiger at Hamilton on display?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 7, 2010 22:39:03 GMT 12
As far as I am aware there is no such place as the Waikato Farming Museum at Hamilton. There used to be a Tiger Moth in the Waikato Museum of Art and History but that moved on to Te Papa some years ago. It was Ossie James's original Tiger Moth.
There are two Tiger Moths at MOTAT, aren't there? The other one is a topdresser from memory.
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Post by vs on Apr 7, 2010 22:43:36 GMT 12
I see there is a nz tigermoth fan page on facebook now
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Post by Peter Lewis on Apr 7, 2010 23:06:23 GMT 12
The history of the MoTAT Tigers is very convoluted.
In short, the Tiger on display in military configuration as NZ775 is said to be basically ZK-BAD (ex-T6200, G-AMNF). The Tiger on display in topdressing configuration as ZK-ANN is said to be basically ZK-AIN (ex-NZ775) with parts from ZK-BJH.
The 'ZK-ANN' one was on display at the Hamilton Museum (main central-city street site) as part of a short-term farming innovation and technology display a few years ago. Presumably, if it is no longer there, it will have returned to MoTAT.
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Post by Richard Wesley on Apr 7, 2010 23:34:29 GMT 12
The history of the MoTAT Tigers is very convoluted. In short, the Tiger on display in military configuration as NZ775 is said to be basically ZK-BAD (ex-T6200, G-AMNF). The Tiger on display in topdressing configuration as ZK-ANN is said to be basically ZK-AIN (ex-NZ775) with parts from ZK-BJH. The 'ZK-ANN' one was on display at the Hamilton Museum (main central-city street site) as part of a short-term farming innovation and technology display a few years ago. Presumably, if it is no longer there, it will have returned to MoTAT. Convoluted indeed. I think you are quite right, now that you spell it out that is exactly how I remember getting the story straight when I was with the museum many years ago. There are no further Tiger Moth parts at Motat apart from the two on display, and the Fox Moth of course as well. There was a claim and dispute involving Tigers for various aircraft and all other fuselages and parts left the museum 10 to 15 years ago now I guess. Photo of top dressing configuration Tiger from Motat visit a couple of years ago...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 7, 2010 23:52:18 GMT 12
So did the musuem in Hamilton, (which is called the Waikato Museum of Art and History, not Hamilton Museum), have two Tiger Moths on display at different times? Or is the info I was given that it was Ossie's example before going to Te Papa, wrong? The MOTAT civil one was at MOTAT in November 2005 and it has been in the same spot each subsequent visit that I've been there. The one I saw in Hamilton would have been around 1997, so a lot longer ago than a few years. Both are in red and silver schemes... so maybe that is where some confusion has crept in.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 7, 2010 23:59:28 GMT 12
Looking at my own photos of that red and silver machine I note the nose says 'Aircraft Services NZ Ltd, Mangere Aerodrome". Who's business was that? Was it one of the very early ones? Imagine topdressers flying from Mangere these days!
Anyway, back to the original topic, does anyone have recent photos of those aircraft that Damon listed?
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Post by Brett on Apr 8, 2010 21:15:33 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 8, 2010 21:36:14 GMT 12
Great stuff Brett. Thanks.
I have wondered before, is the blue on ZK-BLI's roundels simply a personal choice of the owner, or is it a genuine shade used? I mean like the No. 1 TAF Squadron light blue roundels on the Mustangs
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Post by Peter Lewis on Apr 8, 2010 22:37:11 GMT 12
So did the musuem in Hamilton, (which is called the Waikato Museum of Art and History, not Hamilton Museum), have two Tiger Moths on display at different times? Or is the info I was given that it was Ossie's example before going to Te Papa, wrong? I have ZK-AJO as "WFU & stored at Wellington for Museum of NZ". No mention of being at the Hamilton museum, though it may have passed through there. Looking at my own photos of that red and silver machine I note the nose says 'Aircraft Services NZ Ltd, Mangere Aerodrome". Who's business was that? Was it one of the very early ones? Aircraft Services was set up at Mangere after WW2 by Doug Grieg, Alan Vause and others as an aircraft maintenance and servicing business. They were big in civilizing Tiger Moths for a while. When Gibby Gibson was touring around the country in 1949 talking aero clubs into setting up in aerial topdressing, they became interested and (with the initial involvement of Ossie James) equipped Tiger ZK-ANN as an AgTiger. ZK-ANN was first flown as topdresser by D Greig at Mangere 27Jul49, 1st trial topdressing flight Ihumato 4Sep49, 1st commercial topdressing flight Clevedon 7Sep49. These flights were only predated in NZ by the Masterton trials and Airwork's South Island flights with ZK-ASO in May 1949. Aircraft Services then got into aerial work in quite a major way, operating around 13 AgTigers between Whangarei and Port Waikato from their main base at Mangere. They usually operated these under the branding 'Auckland Aviation Services' to distinguish it from their maintenance work. They missed out on the Fletcher assembly contract to James Aviation, but bought Fu-24s anyway, ZK-BHF being the first in 1955. These seem to have dropped the 'Auckland Aviation Services' branding, reverting to 'Aircraft Service' signage. I understand that when Mangere closed to be rebuilt as Auckland International and the move to Ardmore took place, Aircraft Service built a new hangar there on the northern side of the airfield, which is now the one used by Airwork. Soon after this move took place - I think around 1964 - the business was sold to James Aviation, who kept the trading name going for some years in order to operate the area licence. Doug Greig retired to Pauanui.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Apr 8, 2010 23:06:21 GMT 12
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Post by Richard Wesley on Apr 9, 2010 0:01:28 GMT 12
Nice Tiger Moth pictures above, but of course ZK-BAA and ZK-BEC are in RAF not RNZAF plumage, which means I can add ZK-ASM and ZK-AUE as well as NZ1484 at Gore. Just love the photo of NZ1484 Peter!!! I can just see some sheep wandering past. If only I could have a good old kiwi shed with such a beauty tucked inside...
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Post by Damon on Apr 29, 2010 12:41:51 GMT 12
Here is another Tiger Moth with a RNZAF connection.This one now lives in Australia.The picture was taken at Masterton airfield I would imagine during a Tiger Moth Club flying during the early to mid 1980's
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Post by Damon on Apr 29, 2010 12:43:47 GMT 12
Did'nt someone find a complete ex RNZAF DH82 in someones house/garage sometime ago? Where is it now?
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Post by Peter Lewis on May 1, 2010 22:45:30 GMT 12
The ZK-ANN replica is back at MoTAT and on display. Seen here today, with the RNZAF example in the top right
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Post by Peter Lewis on May 1, 2010 23:29:42 GMT 12
That photo of NZ1485 / ZK-DAM is interesting. This Tiger Moth had a very chequered history. DHNZ-built at Rongotai, after service as NZ1485 it was relegated to instructional use at the TTS, Hobsonville in November 1951. After that service was completed, it was said to have gone to Woodbourne, but I saw the fuselage in a hangar at Ardmore on 11Nov1967 It then went to Rotorua for the 29Sdn ATC, and was rebuilt to airworthy by Art Finch utilising the Gipsy Major from Hawk Trainer III ZK-AYW (which is the airframe now at MoTAT) and was registered as ZK-DAM to 29Sdn ATC, Rotorua 23Dec1969 - just in time for Christmas. R A Land & M E Kirkus, Havelock North became owners from 16Nov1974, and R A Land, Hastings on 30Nov1976. Registration changed to J P Bowcock & R A Land, Gisborne on 17May1979 and back to R A Land, Gisborne 30Sep1981. The registration of ZK-DAM was cancelled on 2Jun1982, and I understand that the aircraft was sold to Robert Vuletich of Rotorua, who bartered it for a crate of Mustang wings from Australia. The Tiger appeared on the Australian register as VH-NVT on 23Sep1986 with K Alderman, Nowra, NSW flying with FAA Museum as A17-692. ZK-DAM at Masterton 22Jan1977
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Post by Damon on May 3, 2010 21:55:37 GMT 12
Interesting to see the crest and text on the fuselage on the photos.In my picture they are obscured by the cockpit door that's down and the rear strut.The cowling stenciling reminicant of Harewood Tigers.
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Post by Damon on May 3, 2010 21:56:57 GMT 12
I did not realize 'ANN ' had left MoTAT .Why would they remove the aircraft for a time?
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