PAC Wants P-750 for RNZAF

[madmac]

750XL is still the name on the type certificate.

The 750XL has a higher empty weight due to things like the cargo floor, large cargo door, etc. So the Ag version ended up with a payload verse operating cost is worse than cresco (the operators want new crescos). There isn't anything else available in terms of performance & robustness even before you get to cost.

I think little airplanes in airforces suffer the view from they arn't really aircraft problem (they too much look like something from the aeroclub). Basically they would free up the helo's to do what they are really good at, vertical lands in tight spots, not carting ass & kit between airfields. We could operate probably at least 6 airframes for the cost of 2 109's.

[conman]

Would be nice to see PAC develop a light tandem turbine trainer in a similar vein to the PC21, but maybe more affordable, would be a good follow-up to the CT-4 which can't have much development potential left (bar Avionics), I'm sure the RNZAF would be interested in that aircraft.

[kiwiscanfly]

is the replacement of the CT-4E's imminent or is there still life left in the machines???

[corokid66]

Actually I am suprised that this tidbit on our Defence Minister Wayne Mapp did not end up here earlier. Its from last month concerning him and his 2 days in the PAC-750

Press Release 23 July

TAKING TO THE SKIES
As a private pilot, last week I spent two days in Hamilton obtaining a type rating on Pacific Aerospace’s PAC-750 aircraft. This is a ten seater aircraft, modelled on the well know Fletcher top-dressing aircraft.
Pacific Aerospace is a Kiwi success story. It is part of the Aviation Industry Cluster, which last year celebrated the production of the 1000th Kiwi-made aircraft. The aviation sector contributes $800 million to the New Zealand economy and has the potential for significant growth. Its goal is to achieve $2 billion in exports within the next 10 years.

After the milestone celebrations last year I made it a personal goal to obtain a gas turbine rating so that I could fly the PAC-750. Since January 2007, production of this aircraft has increased by 42% and demand continues to rise. The aircraft’s Extremely Short Take-Off and Landing capabilities enable it to operate in previously inaccessible terrain. It can take off and land in less than 244m.

Flying such an aircraft is outside my normal range of duties, but this is a Kiwi business which I believe has a strong future.

I must also thank the members of my staff and journalists who, with some trepidation, agreed to be the necessary full payload for my flight test!

mmmm I did not know that old Wayno was a pilot and interested in aviation things. Going for his turbine rating!

[Dave Homewood]

Interesting stuff. Yes I knew he was a pilot, Peter Lewis told us here on the forum when Wayne was elected.

[pea032]

www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/new+zealand+defence+industry+forum+2010

Where there is an effective New Zealand defence product, we want to give it the best support possible on global markets.An example of this is the trial programme that the RNZAF is about to undertake with Pacific Aerospace's PAC 750XSTOL aircraft. This trial will establish what roles the aircraft could perform. The RAAF are observing the trials, and will hopefully be inspired by the versatility and value of the aircraft. It deserves a bigger market and we want to help it find that market.

[lesterpk]

It did 2 days at Whenuapai last week, one day of ground trials etc, and was seen flying the circuit etc the next.

[30sqnatc]

Nov 1, 2010 19:17:06 GMT 12 pea032 said:

An example of this is the trial programme that the RNZAF is about to undertake with Pacific Aerospace's PAC 750XSTOL aircraft. This trial will establish what roles the aircraft could perform.

If there is a defence need it is already defined. Starting with the product then finding a need, that smacks of political interference.

[corsair67]

Can they carry a LAV in a 750XL? ;D

[kiwiscanfly]

Maybe a LOV is more like it

[30sqnatc]

Side firing 25mm and 7.62mm with a pair of small UAV

[nige]

pea032.

How many more decades must PAC continue to re-invent the Fletcher/P750XL etc?

Granted, the P750XL is a great aircraft, and I wish them well for commercial sales etc.

But it's time PAC moved on and came up with a twin engine design (and no not a twin engined Fletcher/PAC750XL), something a bit bigger able to carry more weight further etc . That way it might find more utility in the RNZAF or ADF etc.

What's the Asia-Pacific market like for a PAC twin engine training aircraft (a la replacement for RNZAF King Airs B200's etc)?

[corsair67]

Nov 2, 2010 6:16:56 GMT 12 30sqnatc said:

Side firing 25mm and 7.62mm with a pair of small UAV

Is the 25mm turreted by any chance? ;D

[30sqnatc]

Is the 25mm turreted by any chance? ;D

My lips are sealed

[shane]

The P 750XL is offered in the border patrol and animal conservation(anti-poacher) role and is equiped with survailance equipment. To me this would be better for us than UAVs or to suppliment them.
Mentioned here one has be sold to the Botswana goverment:
www.aerospace.co.nz/news/taking-a-closer-look-from-the-air---
The aircraft sold to them is ZS-SHJ
www.airliners.net/photo/Pacific-Aerospace-750XL/1793765/&sid=b2ae9f7ef9ef3ad2f8432201b6adf4a9

[Bruce]

I dont see a need for a border patrol aircraft in NZ (our borders are well offshore...) and poachers in NZ tend to pick on Geckos and small birds - I dont think the 750XL would be much use for that! Its a great aircraft, but I really struggle to see a role for it that out Helos cant do...

[Dave Homewood]

I talked to "an insider" today who said the role the RNZAF are looking at is Army Co-operation, inserting troops or freight into small strips, etc, and performing some of the tasks that are currently done by the iroquois, but at a much reduced cost than what the NH-90 would be to do the same role. He said it would be doing mush the same work as the Pilatus Porter do for the Australian Army only they're much cheaper and carry more load capacity. There are other countries looking at the aircraft for the same sort of role, and the contracts overseas look pretty promising he says. Vietnam has signed an agreement with PAC along these lines, it was apparently widely reported there and in Asia, and our media never picked up on it at all. Apparently Wayne Mapp has publicaly stated how really impressed he is with the aircraft and how much potential he sees in it.

[nige]

Believe it or not, I'm not enjoying being devils advocate on this one.

Eg how would RNZAF P750XL's deploy overseas? Island hopping (with a single engine)? Stored on the flight deck of the Canterbury (meaning the ship helos couldn't operate)?
Specs: www.aerospace.co.nz/aircraft/p-750-xstol/specifications - perhaps extra ferry tanks could be installed?

As said earlier, great for country's bordering others (or land locked) such as Vietnam, but NZ?

Would the PAC750 be at the expense of NZ acquiring more helos?

[Dave Homewood]

Nige, they fly PAC 750XL's across the Pacific now, several have been flown to the USA, and others have flown the Tasman, so surely this is not an issue.

And yes it looks like this is to supliment the NH-90's

[shane]

The Vietnam package is for 2 aircraft and have been sold to the Survey and Aireal Mapping Corporation of the Ministry of National Defence
vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/Economy/Business/205196/NZ-firm-agrees-aircraft-deal-with-VN.html
I personally don't see why acquiring the 750XL for the RNZAF would mean less of other aircraft or a loss of capabilities it seems more like an added extra and supporting kiwi jobs, businesses and knowhow. With the 750XL having been evaluated by the SAAF and offered in the US/ Afghan light cargo tender its gotten alot of publisity that hopefully means more orders and means PAC will be around for many more years to come.
Shane