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Post by luke6745 on Jul 30, 2010 18:33:59 GMT 12
I turned up to my unit the other night only to be disappointed that we could not go ahead with our paint balling social activity because of a minute sent from CFHQ. Political correctness gone mad is all I have to say to this.  |
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Post by obiwan27 on Jul 30, 2010 20:37:34 GMT 12
It does seem a bit odd that a ban would be placed on this if it was actually only a social event as opposed to an 'official' squadron activity.
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Post by luke6745 on Jul 30, 2010 22:38:15 GMT 12
I thought that too, but we were told it was a big fat no.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 30, 2010 23:22:29 GMT 12
Hi Luke, welcome to the forum. This seems a rather strange thing to ban considering it is considered perfectly fine for people to do paintballing commercially. I've never heard of anyone being injured by paintballing apart from the odd bruise and welt. Did they give an explanation in the Minute as to why a ban has been enforced? Is it connected with the recent media hype over gas charged air gun weapons being used by criminals perhaps?
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Post by luke6745 on Jul 30, 2010 23:45:10 GMT 12
Thanks Dave. Our NCOs told us that it had something to do with the media hype. The officers weren't too happy about it from what I could tell. I remember part of the minute saying that if paint balling was to happen 'the cadets would have to one-on-one supervision with a firearms licence holder' which even seemed more strange to me.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 31, 2010 16:44:14 GMT 12
This sounds like a job for Campbell Live to investigate. ;D
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Post by luke6745 on Jul 31, 2010 18:12:30 GMT 12
This sounds like a job for Campbell Live to investigate. ;D ;D |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Jul 31, 2010 18:34:21 GMT 12
Thanks Dave. Our NCOs told us that it had something to do with the media hype. The officers weren't too happy about it from what I could tell. I remember part of the minute saying that if paint balling was to happen 'the cadets would have to one-on-one supervision with a firearms licence holder' which even seemed more strange to me. I do wonder if the wires have been crossed somewhere with use of the NZDF paintball kit which use Steyrs. |
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Post by phil on Aug 1, 2010 18:42:47 GMT 12
It sounds like someone's getting carried away with the interpretation of the Arms act.
Technically, if you are under 18 you need to be under direct supervision by someone over 18, or someone over 16 with a firearms licence to be able to fire an air gun, which of course a paintball gun is.
Of course the arms act also states that no part of the act applies to any member of the Police, NZDF or NZCF while they are carrying out their duties. Hence the CF can fire their Norinco .22 'Sprotting rifles' (yep that's how it's spelt in the Chinglish manual that came with them), without the need for a licenced fire arms holder supervising each cadet on the range.
You would think that the same condition would/could be applied to official unit activities that involve paintballing just as much as it does to range shoots.
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Post by sqwark2k on Aug 1, 2010 22:46:31 GMT 12
An excerpt taken from the Temp Order recently issued re: paintball as a NZCF activity....
... decided that the status quo should remain until such time as: firstly, the outcome of the recently initiated NZ Police review of airguns was known, and secondly, cadet units provided justification explaining how paintball shoots were consistent with and assisted in achieving the organisations training objectives and core values.
Hasn't stopped a group of friends with a mutual association with a particular NZCF unit organising their own game before....
The door is still ajar...
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Post by Kenny on Aug 1, 2010 23:15:04 GMT 12
So......Basicly what we have here is criminals wrecking it for everyone else?
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Post by luke6745 on Aug 1, 2010 23:30:43 GMT 12
So......Basicly what we have here is criminals wrecking it for everyone else? Sounds like it..... |
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Post by sqwark2k on Aug 2, 2010 10:24:26 GMT 12
Bear in mind that Paintball has never been an "recognised" activity, it was only recently proposed to be included in recognised activities which has been denied until further evidence if brought forward to prove that it would fit with the mission statements and training objectives.
The motto of the ATC was changed from "We train to kill" to "We train to serve" because the focus was not about preparing young men for war anymore and that is still very much the focus today.
As I said it doesn't stop like minded individuals from organising their own private game. It just won't have NZCF supervision or count towards annual efficiency etc.... Besides the Risk Management Form would be a complete minefield.... "permanent injury due to ballistic projectile impact" hmmmm causes and prevention strategy.... bugger that.
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Post by phil on Aug 2, 2010 10:52:31 GMT 12
The review of air guns will not include reclassifying paint ball guns as firearms.
Surely paint balling is a great team building activity?
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Post by conman on Aug 2, 2010 17:12:35 GMT 12
The motto of the ATC was changed from "We train to kill" to "We train to serve" because the focus was not about preparing young men for war anymore and that is still very much the focus today. Seems bizzare that the motto was ever "We train to kill" sounds like something more befitting to the Hitler youth, I always believed that "We train to serve" had always been the motto. That would be deemed even to extreme for something like the SAS. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 2, 2010 18:07:03 GMT 12
The motto of the ATC was changed from "We train to kill" to "We train to serve"
From warriors to waiters? ;D
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Aug 17, 2010 19:05:44 GMT 12
Bear in mind that Paintball has never been an "recognised" activity, it was only recently proposed to be included in recognised activities which has been denied until further evidence if brought forward to prove that it would fit with the mission statements and training objectives. The motto of the ATC was changed from "We train to kill" to "We train to serve" because the focus was not about preparing young men for war anymore and that is still very much the focus today. As I said it doesn't stop like minded individuals from organising their own private game. It just won't have NZCF supervision or count towards annual efficiency etc.... Besides the Risk Management Form would be a complete minefield.... "permanent injury due to ballistic projectile impact" hmmmm causes and prevention strategy.... bugger that. The motto of the ATC was never 'we train to kill' - where on earth did you get that idea?  |
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Post by flyjoe180 on Aug 18, 2010 14:00:32 GMT 12
Um, yes it was actually. 1959 I believe it was changed.
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Post by errolmartyn on Aug 18, 2010 14:58:49 GMT 12
Bear in mind that Paintball has never been an "recognised" activity, it was only recently proposed to be included in recognised activities which has been denied until further evidence if brought forward to prove that it would fit with the mission statements and training objectives. The motto of the ATC was changed from "We train to kill" to "We train to serve" because the focus was not about preparing young men for war anymore and that is still very much the focus today. As I said it doesn't stop like minded individuals from organising their own private game. It just won't have NZCF supervision or count towards annual efficiency etc.... Besides the Risk Management Form would be a complete minefield.... "permanent injury due to ballistic projectile impact" hmmmm causes and prevention strategy.... bugger that. The motto of the ATC was never 'we train to kill' - where on earth did you get that idea? 11Sqnldr You are quite right to question this silly statement (we train to kill) - flyjoe180 has, I suspect, been misled by errors on the 40 Sqn ATC site at www.40squadron.org.nz/aboutatc.phpThe site also states: 1938 The Air Defence Corps (ADC) was formed by the Air League of The British Empire. 1940 The Royal New Zealand Air Force took control of the ADC and renamed it to the Air Training Corps (ATC). Which is complete nonsense, the ATC in NZ being formed from scratch in 1941 (not 1940). There was never an 'Air Defence Corps' in NZ. Errol |
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Post by shorty on Aug 18, 2010 15:04:59 GMT 12
Um, yes it was actually. 1959 I believe it was changed. I find that very hard to believe! I joined the ATC in 1960 and have never heard of that before. If it had been 1959 as you claim I would have seen or heard some sign of it. All trace or memory of it would not have disappeared entirely in the space of a few months. I reckon who ever told you that thought that were a very gullible young Rambo wannabee and was pulling your p***ser. It is not the sort of wording that is used on any sort of military motto, and it would be especially not for a youth organisation. I'm sorry but if you want me to believe that story you'll need to show some evidence |
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