Battle of Britain listing

[errolmartyn]

For those that are interested, in this Battle of Britain 70th anniversary month the Ministry of Culture and Heritage have posted a full list of the New Zealanders who flew with Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain.

It includes the names of six New Zealanders not generally found in previously pubished lists, and may be found at:

www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/documents/nz-battle-of-britain-list.pdf

Errol

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for that Errol. That's an interesting list.

Out of interest, who are the six "new" names?

Is Alan Gawith the only one still alive today? Or are there others?

Edit to add Keith Lawrence who's also still alive, somewhere in the UK.

[baz62]

Yes thanks very much Errol

[smithy]

Anyone interested in learning more about the Kiwi Few should pick up Ken Wynn's "A Clasp for the Few" which is biographical material on them. Great book.

On a similar note Ken is just about to release his 3rd edition of "Men of the Battle of Britain" which he told me will be 25% larger than the 2nd edition. Should be a stunner.

[Dave Homewood]

Just as an interesting aside, I interviewed a kiwi chap recently who served in the Battle of Britain in the Royal Navy, aboard a commandeered trawler that was navalised and had guns added. They spent the battle in the Channel close in to the French coast, keeping watch on train and troop movements and watching for barge movements, etc. It was a really different angle on the battle for me. He later went to serve on HMS Neptune - being posted off it days before it met its doom with all hands bar one killed. He then went onto HMS Trinidad which also saw a lot of action before it was sunk and he had to be rescued. And his last ship was on HMS Broke during Operation Terminal, in which he was badly wounded. Have a read about that amzaing and little known operation and you'll find out what an amazing life he lead.

[angelsonefive]

"Out of interest, who are the six "new" names?"

There is a name I am particularly pleased to see there as it has been omitted from a least one other roll of honour I have seen on the Web.

Flt-Lt James Alfred Paterson, MBE, killed in action at about 9:20 am on Friday the 27th of September, 1940, when his Spitfire X4422 was shot down in flames during combat with Me.109s over Sevenoaks and crashed near Dartford.
He was awarded a posthumous MBE in the New Year's Honours List of 1941 for his services in France earlier in 1940.
James Paterson has probably been confused with his fellow Kiwi pilot, also with 92 Sqn, F/O J.G.Pattison.

[errolmartyn]

Further to my earlier post on this subject (it took a bit more time to compile these accompanying notes):

The Ministry of Culture and Heritage contracted me to check their list of New Zealanders who were awarded the BoB Clasp. While undertaking research into this it became evident that not all that has been published in generally accepted standard works on the subject can be relied upon. As noted below, at least six New Zealanders are given less than their due:

In Wood and Dempster’s 1969 (revised) edition of The Narrow Margin and Francis Mason’s 1969 (first) edition of Battle over Britain S J Arnfield, C R Hill & J E Proctor (Procter in Mason) are wrongly recorded as being of New Zealand nationality. Mason’s revised 1990 edition corrects their entries to read ‘British’ (although that in itself is an ambiguous term for the period concerned). Certainly, no evidence can be found to suggest any New Zealand connection for these three men. A check was also made of the index to New Zealand registered births with negative results.

Included in the Min of C & H list are New Zealanders:

(1) W L Butler, RNZAF
(2) L R Preston, RNZAF
(3) I N Robinson, RNZAF
(4) B C W Simmonds, RNZAF

None of these four men are listed in TNM or BoB. They do appear under Wynn’s Appendix A in his A Clasp for ‘The Few’. They are tucked away there, according to the author, because although the RNZAF awarded them the Clasp ‘their entitlement is not recognised by the Battle of Britain Fighter Association for lack of documentary evidence.’

The BoB Fighter Association of course, unlike the RNZAF, is not an official body charged with the authority to award or take the Clasp away from anyone. Notwithstanding this, it is indeed strange that the author’s Men of the Battle of Britain (1989 ed, 1992 Supplementary volume & 2000 60th anniversary editions) also denies them mention. A check of the service records for each man indeed confirms the award of the Clasp in each case. Clearly the awards would not have been made unless the RNZAF was satisfied that the criteria had been met – ipso facto they should appear in MotBoB as of right. The 2010 70th anniversary edition is not yet published and it will interesting to see if these (and the following two) omissions still stand.


(5) T F Gill, RNZAF, RAF (then RNZAF again)

Wellington-born Gill, was a member of RAF during the Battle, later returning to the RNZAF. He was awarded the Clasp by the RNZAF, as is confirmed by his service record. Gill does not appear in TNM or in any of Wynn’s books, but is listed in Mason’s 1969 edition as just ‘Gill’ (no initials) along with his qualifying squadron (No 43), and is shown as ‘British’. Mason’s 1990 edition, however, has omitted him altogether. Frank Gill, incidentally, was the well-known ex-RNZAF air commodore and politician. His award of the Clasp is duly acknowledge in Gp Capt C M Hanson’s By Such Deeds – Honours and awards in the Royal New Zealand Air Force, 1923-1999. He of course should also appear in MotBoB.


(6) R H Strang, RNZAF, RAF

Invercargill-born Strang was also entitled to the Clasp. He transferred from the RNZAF to the RAF on 9 May 1940 and was still a member of that service when he was killed. He married an English woman and as his next of kin she would have received his Clasp through the RAF, hence no record of same on New Zealand files. However, I hold a copy of Strang’s record of service from his log book as well as a copy of the page that records two Clasp-qualifying operational sorties that he flew in October 1940 with 66 Squadron.
Although Strang does not appear in any of Wynn nor TNM, he is correctly recorded by Mason in his 1969 edition, though identified as ‘British’, but is then strangely omitted from the 1990 edition. He of course should also appear in MotBoB.

There are also confusing numbers provided by Wynn as to the total number of New Zealanders. On page 2 of his 1989 edition MotBoB he gives the total number of New Zealanders as only 126 – even though page xi of Clasp has 129 (sic – should read 133 to include those in Appendix A). In the 1992 Supplement volume there are a number amendments to his totals by nationality but the New Zealand figure remains unaltered and incorrect at 126.

The term ‘British’, as used in MotBoB, is a cause for ambiguity. Individual entries frequently have no date or place of birth (refer to the 1989/1992 editions here) – so it is not possible to readily establish if they are English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Ireland, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, or of some other nationality altogether.

Errol

[smithy]

Sept 7, 2010 22:33:23 GMT 12 errolmartyn said:

The term ‘British’, as used in MotBoB, is a cause for ambiguity. Individual entries frequently have no date or place of birth (refer to the 1989/1992 editions here) – so it is not possible to readily establish if they are English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Ireland, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, or of some other nationality altogether.

Errol

This is why there has been discrepancies between sources and books. Nationality is always a sticky wicket and commentators will differ. One which immediately jumps to mind and has caused squabbles in the past is Carl Davis of 601 who some list as American and others as South African.

Although not Kiwis, two new members of the Few were unearthed recently by Mike Lewis the secretary of the 610 Sqn Association. They are Patrick Watson-Parker and Charles Ogilvy. There was an article in the Winter 2009/2010 edition of the BoBHS newsletter.

[angelsonefive]

Sgt Robert Holder, RNZAF ( died in a night flying training accident near Coleby Grange airfield on October 26, 1940 before he could fly on operations ) was born in Warwickshire and emigrated to NZ at 21 to become farm cadet.

[errolmartyn]

Sept 7, 2010 23:29:21 GMT 12 angelsonefive said:

Sgt Robert Holden, RNZAF ( died in a night flying training accident near Coleby Grange airfield on October 26, 1940 before he could fly on operations ) was born in Warwickshire and emigrated to NZ at 21 to become farm cadet.

At least one operational sortie had to be flown to qualify for the Clasp. Holder was posted to his squadron (151) on 30 Sep 40, allowing plenty of time to have so qualified.

Errol

[errolmartyn]

Sept 7, 2010 23:04:37 GMT 12 smithy said:

This is why there has been discrepancies between sources and books. Nationality is always a sticky wicket and commentators will differ. One which immediately jumps to mind and has caused squabbles in the past is Carl Davis of 601 who some list as American and others as South African.

Although not Kiwis, two new members of the Few were unearthed recently by Mike Lewis the secretary of the 610 Sqn Association. They are Patrick Watson-Parker and Charles Ogilvy. There was an article in the Winter 2009/2010 edition of the BoBHS newsletter.

Smithy,

You raise a good point. Just to clarify the situation regarding the 'New Zealand' listing, the following from the C & H list were not born in New Zealand but were resident for various periods – some from infancy, others only a year or two before enlistment in the air force:

Burns, W R – England (to NZ 1929, joined RNZAF)
Campbell, A – England (to NZ 1920, joined RNZAF)
Crook, V W J – Australia (to NZ 1937, joined RNZAF)
Fleming, J – Scotland (to NZ ‘as a child’, joined RAF under a NZ scheme)
Gibson, J A A – England (to NZ 1920, joined RAF under a NZ scheme)
Holder, R – England (to NZ in 1938, joined RNZAF)
McDermott, J A – Scotland (to NZ 1923, joined RNZAF)
Pye, J W – England (to NZ aged 6, family were visiting UK on outbreak of war, due to return September 1939 but on outbreak of war Pye joined the RAFVR)
Rabone, P W – England (to NZ by 1927, joined RNZAF then transferred to RAF)
Whitney, D M – Australia (to NZ 1915, joined RNZAF)
Whitwell, P C – England (to NZ 1938, joined RNZAF)

Incidentally, I have no argument with those who would list these under more than one nationality heading: e.g. Burn under England (place of birth and part residence) and New Zealand (place of part residence and air force enlisted in). The mobility of the human race is such that not all us fit neatly into just the one box.

Errol

[smithy]

Sept 8, 2010 0:20:09 GMT 12 errolmartyn said:

Incidentally, I have no argument with those who would list these under more than one nationality heading: e.g. Burn under England (place of birth and part residence) and New Zealand (place of part residence and air force enlisted in). The mobility of the human race is such that not all us fit neatly into just the one box.

Errol

I agree Errol, listing under more than one nationality, although perhaps some who like things cut and dried would find clumsy, is IMHO quite acceptable. Also it perhaps needs to be remembered how nationality was considered back in the 40s, where for example even though one was born in the "colonies" or outside of Great Britain, British nationality was stated. It was I suppose a last swan song of the British Empire where parental nationality was considered more important than place of birth. And just to muddy the waters many New Zealanders also considered themselves British at this time.

Thanks for posting this information, great stuff.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Errol.

[angelsonefive]

Sept 8, 2010 0:09:25 GMT 12 errolmartyn said:

Sept 7, 2010 23:29:21 GMT 12 angelsonefive said:

Sgt Robert Holder, RNZAF ( died in a night flying training accident near Coleby Grange airfield on October 26, 1940 before he could fly on operations ) was born in Warwickshire and emigrated to NZ at 21 to become farm cadet.

At least one operational sortie had to be flown to qualify for the Clasp. Holder was posted to his squadron (151) on 30 Sep 40, allowing plenty of time to have so qualified.

Errol

On or about the day that Robert Holder joined 151 Squadron the unit was designated a night fighter squadron and was training in that role when Holder crashed.
They were, however, on " day readiness " during that time and the squadron diary shows that Hurricanes were " scrambled " on occasions to investigate reports of German raiders.
Sgt Holder could well have been on one of these flights and I now agree that he would have flown operationally in the 4 weeks he was with his squadron.

By the way, I did not mean to imply that in my view Robert Holder should not be included in a list of NZ pilots.
Far from it. But as Robert was only in NZ for about two years I wonder what he would have thought about it.
Thanks, Errol, for posting the list.