Cobber Kain's kills - as reported

[Dave Homewood]

It is interesting to see various reports on the number aircraft that Edgar "Cobber" Kain was reported to have made.

These early war reports just before and just after his 1940 death all state that he had 40 or more to his name, and one quotes him directly as stating he had more than 30 some weeks before his death.

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19400528.2.63.1&srpos=1&e=-01-1939--12-1945--10--1-byDA---0cobber+kain+40--

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19400611.2.58&srpos=2&e=-01-1939--12-1945--10--1-byDA---0cobber+kain+40--

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19400724.2.45&srpos=4&e=-01-1939--12-1945--10--1-byDA---0cobber+kain+40--

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19400612.2.60&srpos=3&e=-01-1939--12-1945--10--1-byDA---0cobber+kain+40--

Yet by April 1945 the same newspaper is reporting him as having a total of 25 kills, much less than before.
paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19450407.2.74&srpos=15&e=-01-1939--12-1945--10--11-byDA---0rnzaf+ace--

It is obvious that wartime media cannot be trusted to have everything 100% accurate. However I am curious about what the process would have been for them to downgrade his score fie years later from 40+ to 25. Would that latter be based on RAF records rather than newspaper men's stories perhaps?

[smithy]

Dave,

Without doubt Cobber would have scored more than what various modern commentators list him as having. Part of the problem is that the situation was so fluid and hectic after 10th May when Cobber achieved most of his victories. Combine that with the fact that a vast amount of 73's records were lost in the flap to evacuate and sadly we shall never be truly certain.

I personally doubt the 40+ claims made by contemporary newspapers. There was a lot of shouting things up for morale and propaganda purposes and I think such numbers come under that.

What is hugely impressive is the time in which Cobber scored his victories. In around half a year (and the vast majority in just a few weeks) he achieved a score around half that of Johnnie Johnson - and which took Johnson several years.

[Dave Homewood]

Yes, I'm aware of the fluid situation and the difficulties in finding any actual record. My friend Kerry and I interviewed Bill Kain who was on the squadron with Cobber, and we hve a copy of his logbook. Before the Battle of France it was very detailed, but during the battle things got very sketchy. Bill himself got ill and missed a lot of the later fighting, and very nearly ended up a POW but managed to escape France by the skin of his teeth. He told us about the loss of the records and worse the ground staff, when their evacuation vessel was sunk in the Channel. He reckoned that Cobber enjoyed playing to the media but he respected him, they'd been at school together and been in No. 73 Squadron together since 1937, and had flown together often in display teams and in combat. The impression I got was Cobber liked the publicity but didn't exaggerate his part. I have been writing up Bill's memories from the tape and adding details from the logbook and many other sources. He had an interesting career, rising to Wing Commander. He was shot down by the French, knocked down several Germans, and once crashed in the desert and had to be rescued. He was wounded by a bomb in Malta. He went on leave once to italy and went to Monte Cassino just for a look, and to see his wife who was a nurse near there. He also flew one of the special Spitfires when he was CO of RAF Aboukir. He ended up CO at Predannack. Amazing chap. I hope to publish his story someday.

Back to the thread, I'm not disputuing any of the figures but just commenting on the huge difference and wondering what the process was that saw it wound back to the more realistic 25 from 40+ in 1940. Someone must have said 'No, that's wrong'.