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Post by mstokes on Oct 22, 2008 10:07:42 GMT 12
Hey guys,
Hope all are well, I have been off the forum for a bit as I have been travelling. Was going to hijack the other DC-3 thread but thought I am really changing subject here.
I was looking for any information (and drawings/images if they exist) on the installation of the hopper into the Ag DC-3. I know that it was a bigger operation than it seemed with wing spars having to be moved and the like and that the originals were done in Hong Kong.
Similarly, if anyone has any details on the Lodestar hopper configuration I would be interested to hear from you.
Both are for upcoming model projects. ;D
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Post by Bruce on Oct 22, 2008 10:37:11 GMT 12
as far as i can tell from looking over AZL in the past, the spars were intact, however there was some major reshuffling of the centre section fuel tanks to get the hopper in. I beleive that there was some variation in the design of hoppers and spreader boxes between the various operators (James, Fieldair and Southern Air Super) and between the different aircraft due to the different periods of conversion. Ag daks would be great model subjects - keep us posted on progress!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2008 15:37:39 GMT 12
I was thinking about the same thing when I was reading Beagle's DC-3 thread. I understand it that many of Fieldair's ex-topdressing Dakotas went onto their freight run later and then back into the airline business. So were they pretty much free from the corrosion that is usually associated with ex-topdressers due to the superphosphate? If so was that good design work on the installation of the hoppers so the airframe had minimal damage from the super? Or was it just due to good maintenance by Fieldair?
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Post by Peter Lewis on Oct 22, 2008 20:40:47 GMT 12
. . many of Fieldair's ex-topdressing Dakotas . . Only two out of eleven - ZK-AWP to Fieldair Freight and then via Classic Air et al and eventually Tonga, and ZK-BBJ to Fieldair Freight and via North Shore Helicopters to Cambodia/Somalia. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2008 21:26:20 GMT 12
Thanks. Where did the other freight one/s come from. They had at least three didn't they? (sorry to stray from the thread). Were they from other freight services? I'm sure I used to see three on the tarmac at Wellignton whilst travelling through there in 1989. Those were the days.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2008 16:55:44 GMT 12
Great timing! I'm looking to get a 1/200 Dak to "agrify" and hopefully make as a small diorama, dusting over hill country. I'd love to see any shots of the hopper!
Come to think of it, one of the guys at work has some AgDak time.....
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Post by mstokes on Oct 23, 2008 18:28:05 GMT 12
I was able to pick up some information in a chat I had yesterday. Apparently the hopper was built to fit into the fuselage snuggly, which you would expect. Some of the floors had been strengthened due to the nature of cargo work they were doing before, but what apparently took the most time and thinking to solve was how to get the hopper outlets into the aeroplane.
C of G requirements and also the aircrafts structure meant that they apparently used two hopper 'openings' which straddled the centre of the aircrafts wing box.
Now this is all heresay and a lot of it could be incorrect, but it sounds like it would be heading in the right direction.
Apparently crew access was from the front hatch as the hopper blocked internal access off.
I am working on a 1/72 one, keep me updated on yours zacyates.
Also, my Ceres model that is on here is in WAW colours. I never quite cleared it or asked permission to use the markings, but it should be of interest to you. WAW did a good job of maintaining photo's of their past fleet and aircraft so very handy for ag modellers...
Cheers all!
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Post by fletcherfu24 on Oct 23, 2008 21:27:21 GMT 12
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Post by mstokes on Oct 28, 2008 10:25:53 GMT 12
Does anyone know details on how the pilot entered the topdressing Daks? It appears to me that there was a door in front of the hopper towards the front of the wing on the left hand side. My question I suppose on this is that there appears to be no door actually built into the Dakota there so this must have also been a modification? Maybe they moved an emergency door from further back up to the front? If anyone is swinging by the Macca's at Taupo anytime soon, I have been told that CAW has her door still attached (could be a good excuse to drop by ;D). If anyone can pass on an approximate size and shape of the door I would be most appreciative  I am hoping to add a bit of interest to my 1/72 scale ag dak by opening some doors so all the interior detail is not lost! |
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Post by Bruce on Oct 28, 2008 10:49:09 GMT 12
AZL had a tiny door around the first window on the LH side. It appears slightly bigger than a standard emergency exit door, and was hinged from the top, opening upwards. There was a t-shaped (like the back door on a 1950s Commer Van) door handle below the window, bottom centre. Daves pics from the other day may show it. There was a non - slip walkway up the wing root from the trailing edge to the door.
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Post by mstokes on Oct 28, 2008 12:39:05 GMT 12
Thanks Bruce, that is a big help even knowing it is hinged from the top... Bit strange for my mind though, I thought they would have hinged them on the side so the slipsteam would keep the door closed? Did the door look like it would stay open? Wonder if the pilot dragged the ladder up each time or if he had to wait for the Loader Driver each time |
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Post by Bruce on Oct 28, 2008 13:08:12 GMT 12
There was a stay on each side to keep it open (Although AZLs were both broken when I climbed in there as a kid!) The ladder on the trailing edge slotted into a couple of little pins that stuck up above the trailing edge at the bottom of the walkway - where that ladder was stowed is anyones guess! it isnt too far to jump down, but a pig of a job getting back up!
From memory (and this was before she was "restored" for gate display), inside the compartment just in front of the hopper (between it and the standard forward cabin wall) was an arrangement of two counterweights in box section tubes that counterbalanced the hopper top door (which slid rearwards, unfortunately as the hopper door was missing i cant remember any details of that.) The "engineers / baggage" compartment was completely empty except for an electrical switch panel just behind the LH baggage compartment door. Interior was painted white overall except for the cockpit which was black. there possibly would have been some padded sound insulation (normally Olive drab) around the cockpit but that had long gone. Control columns were definitely mid grey. Both cockpit seats were retained, despite conversion to single pilot config (Which largely involved extending and bending some of the centre console levers and relocating some switches. I recall the astrodome opening was visible from inside, as it had only been patched over with a sheet of metal outside.
that is wahat I can remember, although pretty young at the time (13 or 14) I was pretty keen on DC3s and did take quite a good look at it - it was "abandoned" in a paddock behind the museum at the time, no engines or control surfaces and in the late James avaiation scheme. I distinctly recall yellow outer wings, although several people I spoke to later said James machines were never painted that colour - perhaps some Fieldair units were obtained at some stage? (does anyone have any colour pics to confirm?) I trust those details will help!
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Post by mstokes on Oct 28, 2008 13:26:55 GMT 12
Thanks Bruce! That information is invaluable to me. Thanks for sharing it. Much appreciated  |
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Post by helikiwi on Nov 2, 2008 7:17:42 GMT 12
from memory as a kid - my dad flew ag daks for fieldair
there was a rope attached to the wing just beside the above wing exit to help you pull yourself up the wing - the entry/exit was just the normal emergency exit - was a tight fit for so me people
the split flaps from under the fuse were removed as the would have been just behind the twin hydraulic hopper boxes.
pm me if you want some more info - have a few photos
brett
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Post by mstokes on Nov 4, 2008 9:27:47 GMT 12
Thanks Brett, I have sent you a personal message regarding some of the images, they would be great if you have any you can share.
It is interesting what you mentioned about the flaps as I was under an assumption that all the flaps had been removed, it is very hard to find a picture, even at take-off, of the ag daks with their flaps down. I wouild like to model mine with them down to add some interest, but only if plausible in a historical context...
The wing on the dak must be an efficient lifter when clean!
Rope on the wing must be handy when the rain, dew, exhaust and fertiliser all settled on the wing.
Cheers for the reply
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Post by fletcherfu24 on Nov 4, 2008 21:22:39 GMT 12
Anyone actually got a photo of a hopper?.Was it anything more than a large canvas bag held up by some A frames?.
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Post by Bruce on Nov 4, 2008 21:49:54 GMT 12
Anyone actually got a photo of a hopper?.Was it anything more than a large canvas bag held up by some A frames?. ZK-AZLs was a substantial structure of aluminium, with formers etc on the outside - the inside was smooth of necessity. It must have been assembled in situ from components as it was huge, taking up all but about 6 inches of cabin width. at the bottom it split in two to feed the twin outlet boxes, one on either side of the centre section middle rib. Alas, even if you could get inside AZL now, the hopper was cut through the middle for "access" when it was cosmetically restored in the late 1980s. - although this may allow some additional detail to be seen.... |
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stuart
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by stuart on Nov 23, 2010 14:18:50 GMT 12
I remember that the entry ladder to get on to the wing was just stowed inside on the floor, just inside where the opening window was located. Remember having to carry it in many times when going on flights with my father in the Dak he flew for many years
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Post by starr on May 24, 2012 11:39:53 GMT 12
Entry origianally was through the escape door forward of the port engine by an extension ladder. This meant that every time anyone required access, the port engine had to be shut down. The ladder was pulled up into the aircraft by a rope. This did require a bit of practice.
CQA was the first one to my knowledge to use the hatch on to the wing. A rope was used to help to get up the wing, and was attached to the ladder to pull it up to store inside the aircraft. The hatch was the normal escape hatch built into the aircraft. James had bungy cords attached to the door to keep it open. They were not used all the time, as with practice you could get in and out by holding them open enough.
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