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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 20, 2011 13:21:16 GMT 12
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Post by strikemaster on Jan 20, 2011 14:19:30 GMT 12
Great pics, thanks Dave.
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Post by pjw4118 on Jan 20, 2011 17:11:25 GMT 12
What lovely clear shots, I hope graham Clayton sees them
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Post by alanw on Jan 20, 2011 19:47:19 GMT 12
Thanks for posting these Dave ;D
Wishlist would be a colour one or two......
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 21, 2011 14:00:43 GMT 12
You mean like the colour pics of 27 Sqn Blenheims that Mydans took at that same time (see the Britmodeller WWII forum for details).
Like you, I'd love a couple of nice, clear colour pics to give some indication of how these beasts were painted.
Just for reference, that pic of W8202 doing an engine run-up with 2 erks hanging onto the tailplane is actually W8140. The serial was doctored to match the pics of the airframe being uncrated but there's an unmodified version of the pic in the LIFE archive. Note that the camouflage on W8140 is actually the reverse of W8202.
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Post by alanw on Jan 21, 2011 16:00:00 GMT 12
You mean like the colour pics of 27 Sqn Blenheims that Mydans took at that same time (see the Britmodeller WWII forum for details). Like you, I'd love a couple of nice, clear colour pics to give some indication of how these beasts were painted. Hi Mark Glad to see you belong to this forum too ;D ;D Yes, certainly like the Blenheims you posted at the same angle (Starboard side to see the undercolour) Noticed that the Buffalo (4th photo down) where you can see into the inner fuselage shows some interesting paint colours 1) Cockpit upper/lower two colours 2) Engine bearers are Aluminum paint at least (sigh) wish I had that pic before I closed up my Buffalo  Would love to know what that triangular part is on the Starboard side, doesn't appear (that I can tell) on the Port side. Regards Alan |
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 21, 2011 16:18:43 GMT 12
Hi Alan,
Yes, that's a really fascinating pic. I actually thought the entire cockpit area was one colour and it's clearly some form of interior green.
I agree the engine bearers are aluminium. What's not clear is whether that colour also applied to the rest of that area. I have a couple of pics of the fuselage gun bay (not close-ups, sadly) which seem to show the same colour on the ammo boxes and the associated fittings so I suspect all of that forward fuselage area was aluminium. The exception would be the wing spar, the bulkhead below that and the recesses for the wheels which are in the underside colour.
As for the "triangular" piece, that's actually the rectangular panel from the gap just above the wing root to its right (the piece is rotated around the top left corner fastener.
Cheers,
Mark
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 21, 2011 16:22:46 GMT 12
At least some of these Buff's went onto fly in No. 488 Squadron RNZAF, and others were probably flown by the kiwis in No's 67 and 243 Squadrons RAF. Dave, Of the identifiable Buffalos in these and other Mydans photos: W8135, W8138 and W8148 served with 67 Sqn and then 488 Sqn W8140, W8142 and W8184 served with 243 Sqn W8202 Served with 21/453 Sqn (replacement aircraft after the fighter squadrons retreated to Singapore in late-Dec 41) Cheers, Mark |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 21, 2011 16:53:35 GMT 12
Thanks for this input Mark. Do you know the location in these photos?
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 21, 2011 17:01:54 GMT 12
The first 6 are Seletar (151 MU). The rest were probably taken at Kallang. The 27 Sqn 540 records this photo shoot on 3 April 41 but the location is somewhat imprecisely given as Singapore. There's no corresponding record in the 540s of either 67 Sqn or 243 Sqn but, since Kallang was their home station, one imagines that any deployment of Buffalos to another airfield would have drawn comment. I have therefore assumed that the pics are of Kallang rather than, say, Tengah. Also, given that Kallang was the civil airport for Singapore, perhaps the 27 Sqn 540 is simply recording that the unit was stationed at Singapore Airport?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 21, 2011 17:53:04 GMT 12
Thanks. I wonder if Mydans took any photos of the No. 205 Squadron Short Singapores at Seletar at the time of his visit.
Do you know if any of these photos were published in the magazine? If so, was there an accompanying story?
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Post by angelsonefive on Jan 21, 2011 18:10:05 GMT 12
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Post by alanw on Jan 21, 2011 19:42:18 GMT 12
The important part of that link with regards to RAF Buffaloes is that sentence which states RAF Aircraft purchased from the US (orders placed before/ during Battle of Britain) were painted in US Equivalent RAF colours, Brewster 339E Buffalo, Curtiss P40E as received by RNZAF in 1942 Photos from the RAF pilots manual shows certainly that the Cockpit was painted in US Equivalent colours, the rear of the aircraft aft of the seat bulkhead was Aluminum/Silver, so typical of RAF aircraft of the era. The main issue is as you can see from the photo (4th) that the interior has a main colour and a lower colour, but the engine bearers were Aluminum paint/Silver which again if you look at some RAF aircraft of the Battle of Britain period had silver/Aluminum paint bearers eg early Hurricanes. Things are not so straight forward especially for modellers  A couple of photos from my build   My Build which is as about as authentic to the pilots notes as possible, the green passable (Shorty posted some photos of a Hudson interior which gives you a very good idea of the US Equivalent interior colours) The "Z" frame should according to the photo be Aluminum/Silver - always after you finish -Murphy's Law Regards Alan |
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 22, 2011 0:00:20 GMT 12
Alan,
I'm still not seeing the two-tone interior. There is an erk standing with his back to us, his left hand on the aft edge of the gap in the fuselage where the wing will ultimately be fitted. Above his right arm does appear darker but I'm pretty certain that's shadow, the lighter tone underneath because light is hitting that lower portion of the fuselage interior directly. Am I looking at the same area to which you are referring?
Regards,
Mark
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 22, 2011 0:50:47 GMT 12
I wonder if Mydans took any photos of the No. 205 Squadron Short Singapores at Seletar at the time of his visit. Do you know if any of these photos were published in the magazine? I think Mydans focussed on the more glamourous types - yes, I do mean the Blenheim and the Buffalo. The other aircraft in Singapore were, AFAIK, not imaged so no Catalinas, no Sunderlands, no Vildebeests (sadly), no Short Singapores, although there are a few of Wirraways. He doesn't seem to have taken any photos of the more obscure types "just for fun" either - most of his Singapore (the place not the aircraft) pics were never published, including those colour shots of 27 Sqn Blenheims but I've yet to find any pics of other types trawling through the archive. That said, there is a chance that some additional photos will become available which might contain other aircraft types. The holdings in the LIFE archive seem to change over time (again, the colour Blenheims weren't there a while back). I just really wish they could make the search more useful - I may have said that a few hundred times! |
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Post by alanw on Jan 22, 2011 9:48:10 GMT 12
Alan, I'm still not seeing the two-tone interior. There is an erk standing with his back to us, his left hand on the aft edge of the gap in the fuselage where the wing will ultimately be fitted. Above his right arm does appear darker but I'm pretty certain that's shadow, the lighter tone underneath because light is hitting that lower portion of the fuselage interior directly. Am I looking at the same area to which you are referring? Regards, Mark Hi Mark Yes, it is the same place I agree with you on the light/dark shadows, I spent some time this morning just comparing the lighting along the interior and it's shadow, and comparing it with light and dark with shadows around the house. It's amazing how dark that green can appear in shadow. I guess what kept throwing me was that marked demarcation just above the Erks arm. But it's all good fun with black and white photos ;D Regards Alan |
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Post by Andy Wright on Jan 22, 2011 20:58:51 GMT 12
Thanks, Dave, always great to see Buffs and short-nose Blenheims.
Looks like a Walrus in the background of the 'production line' pic?
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 24, 2011 17:27:01 GMT 12
Yes, it's a Walrus. 151 MU was responsible for the overhaul of all aircraft operated by Far East Command. According to "Bloody Shambles" there was a single Walrus assigned to the RN's Communications Flight so perhaps that's the aircraft visible in the hangar shot.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 24, 2011 18:43:56 GMT 12
Do you know which FAA unit had Albacores attached and based at Seletar in early 1942?
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 25, 2011 0:26:54 GMT 12
According to 'Bloody Shambles' it wasn't FAA but 36 Sqn which had the Applecores.
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