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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 25, 2011 0:45:41 GMT 12
Yes they had them, but they had found them left abandoned by the FAA at Seletar. I'm keen to know which unit or ship abandoned them.
No. 36 Squadron's own Vildebeests had been largely destroyed both in action and on the ground by that time. The squadron (what was left of them) was actually planning to escape Singapore on a yacht which they had all teed up then someone in the squadron found the Albacores, three or four of them I think, and they 'commandeered' them.
They flew a couple of ops in these in Singapore and then as many as possible piled in and headed down to the Dutch East Indies, where they continued to harass the Japs in the Albacores. Ron Reid, who told me all this, flew his Albacore on several attacks including one against a Japanese destroyer which he bombed and hit it square on but did no damage.
They ended up with two Applecores left eventually, and it was decided that they would fly them as far as they could towards India, loaded up with as many guys as possible, till they saw a friendly boat to ditch beside and hopefully be rescued and taken on to India. Ron Reid was to go aboard one of the Albacores but an RAF officer convinced him to swap his seat and stay behind as the officer had a wife in India. That aircraft did ditch next to a boat, and it was either all of them or all but one aboard died in the ditching. Ron ended up a POW but the officer died in his place and he was alive. The other Albacore ditched next to a beach, the men came ashore and were captured. So it was completely futile in the end. Very sad. Ron and some of the others from the squadron ended up being shipped to Sumatra where he spent from 1942-1945 building a railway, as a lead spiker, under the worst imaginable conditions. When the war ended and they were liberated, the locals ripped out the 250 mile railway they'd built, as the Japs had stolen all the sleepers and rails from another railway line which had to be rebuilt. So the line took three years to complete and then it was ripped out, andgave no benefit whatsoever to the locals after the war, unlike the Thai railway.
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Post by oggie2620 on Jan 25, 2011 4:09:28 GMT 12
If I see any of these on ebay I will bid for them..
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 25, 2011 11:48:20 GMT 12
Yes they had them, but they had found them left abandoned by the FAA at Seletar. I'm keen to know which unit or ship abandoned them. quote] Dave, I dug a little deeper and it seems the Albacores were held in storage at Seletar rather than being cast-offs from a formed unit. I have no idea why they were there. Perhaps they were reserve aircraft for the aircraft carrier that was supposed to be assigned to Force Z? KR Mark |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 25, 2011 12:34:02 GMT 12
Thanks Mark
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Post by SEAN on Jan 26, 2011 7:02:47 GMT 12
Here are a couple of pics of 488 Sqn Buffalo's at Kallang. Dec 1941  Jan 1942  and a 488 Sqn Hurricane again at Kallang Jan 1942  All RNZAF or RNZAF Museum Official |
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Post by buffnut453 on Jan 27, 2011 10:58:43 GMT 12
Great pics Sean. That Hurri is particularly interesting 'cos, if I were a betting man, I'd say it was in desert camo of Sand and Dark Earth.
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Post by steveh on Feb 1, 2011 20:52:44 GMT 12
I've seen somwhere a drawing of a Sea Hurricane which was converted by the Navy from a Hurricane intended for Singapore which was in Desert Colours. I'll try & find it but your impression was mine too.
Steve.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 1, 2011 21:47:42 GMT 12
Great phoots there Sean. I believe the one with the dragon artwrok is among those in the LIFE photos, pre-artwork.
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Post by angelsonefive on Feb 2, 2011 10:24:47 GMT 12
Great pics Sean. That Hurri is particularly interesting 'cos, if I were a betting man, I'd say it was in desert camo of Sand and Dark Earth. I think the fairing of a Vokes air cleaner is visible under the cowl making the Hurri. a " tropicalised " version, and thus very likely to have the Desert Air Force camo. BM899 was part of Block 6 of the Hawker production, built at Langley and Brooklands and delivered between 24/7/41 and 18/3/42. www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM |
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Post by angelsonefive on Feb 2, 2011 10:31:19 GMT 12
Yes they had them, but they had found them left abandoned by the FAA at Seletar. I'm keen to know which unit or ship abandoned them. quote] Dave, I dug a little deeper and it seems the Albacores were held in storage at Seletar rather than being cast-offs from a formed unit. I have no idea why they were there. Perhaps they were reserve aircraft for the aircraft carrier that was supposed to be assigned to Force Z? KR Mark Yes, left behind in port as replacement aircraft, I think, just as the three famous Sea Gladiators Faith, Hope and Charity were left in Malta by the Navy. |
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Post by steveh on Feb 2, 2011 22:43:46 GMT 12
Time to confess to a bit of confusion in what I remembered. Jan 2000 SAM mag showed a drawing by Peter Scott of a Sea Hurricane BD771 which was originally a Hurricane IIb destined for Singapore. IIRC there were one or two which did not make the reinforcemant flight from the HMS Illustious(?) due to mechanical problems. It is shown in DG/DE/Sky colours however. The May 1999 issue of the same mag shows a drawing of BD899 as shown above but this time in DG/OG/MSG colours. One thing that occurs to me in favour of the later scheme is the underside appears lighter than Azure blue which it would more than likely have been in if it was desert camo'd, but seeing as how fraught colour interpretation of B & W photos is, I'll stop right there.  Steve. |
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Post by alanw on Feb 6, 2011 17:50:16 GMT 12
Great pics Sean. That Hurri is particularly interesting 'cos, if I were a betting man, I'd say it was in desert camo of Sand and Dark Earth. I think the fairing of a Vokes air cleaner is visible under the cowl making the Hurri. a " tropicalised " version, and thus very likely to have the Desert Air Force camo. BM899 was part of Block 6 of the Hawker production, built at Langley and Brooklands and delivered between 24/7/41 and 18/3/42. www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTMAngels one five. Hi guys missed these last few posts This is a 488 Squadron Hurri at Kallang  (Photo RNZAF official - found in New Zealand in WWII RNZAF in South East Asia) It's certainly a tropical version. As you can see the spinner is not Sky, suggesting it's not Dk Green/Ocean Grey/Med Sea Grey which in Dec 41/Jan42 would have been the RAF norm for Europe This link gives some colour footage of RAF Mohawks in Burma could be a colour consideration rafseaccoloursmarkings.blogspot.com/2009/04/colour-film-of-5-sqn-mohawks.htmlI know this is a restored aircraft, but colours are worth consideration (don't know about red spinner though ;D) upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Hurricane_IV_KZ321.jpg/800px-Hurricane_IV_KZ321.jpgRegards Alan |
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tarajm9
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by tarajm9 on Apr 9, 2012 11:37:48 GMT 12
Hi all,
My grandfather Grantham McGill-Nutt served with the 488 Squadron. My son has been asked by his school to bring in any family history, photo's etc on serving ancestors for their ANZAC Day celebrations.
I have searched and searched and cannot find a photo of my granfather for him to take in.
I have ordered Graham Claytons book hoping to find something in there, but i also wanted to ask if anyone knew of some sort of online archive of photo's where i could look through and see if he's in any of them.
Also if anyone has any info on him or his brother who passed while serving (cant find who for) Gordon J McGill-Nutt.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as im new to this and feel ive been going in circles for a week.
Thanks
Tara
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Post by errolmartyn on Apr 9, 2012 12:14:59 GMT 12
Hi all, My grandfather Grantham McGill-Nutt served with the 488 Squadron. My son has been asked by his school to bring in any family history, photo's etc on serving ancestors for their ANZAC Day celebrations. I have searched and searched and cannot find a photo of my granfather for him to take in. I have ordered Graham Claytons book hoping to find something in there, but i also wanted to ask if anyone knew of some sort of online archive of photo's where i could look through and see if he's in any of them. Also if anyone has any info on him or his brother who passed while serving (cant find who for) Gordon J McGill-Nutt. Any help would be greatly appreciated as im new to this and feel ive been going in circles for a week. Thanks Tara There is no mention of Grantham McGill-Nutt in the index to the Clayton book. Brother Gordon appears in my trilogy For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume One: Fates 1915-1998): Wed 15 Oct 1941 Bomber Command Night flying practice 11 Operational Training Unit, RAF (Bassingbourn, Cambridgeshire - 6 Group) Wellington IC T2556 - lost flying speed after an overshoot at 2035, crashed and caught fire. One of the crew survived, injured, but his three comrades died, including the pilot, who is buried in the Bassingbourn cum Kneesworth Cemetery. Deteriorating weather conditions, which earlier in the day had curtailed commencement of the training programme, were thought to have been a factor in the accident. Pilot: NZ391665 Sgt Gordon James McGILL-NUTT, RNZAF - Age 20. 159hrs (86 solo - 2 on Wellington) And from Vol Three (Biographies & Appendices): McGILL-NUTT, Sergeant Gordon James. NZ391665 (prev A391665); b Marton 17 Oct 20; Wgtn Coll; photographer - A W Blake, Wgtn. NZ Army/TF (NZMC) 3 yrs; RNZAF Levin/RTS as Medical Orderly 6 Dec 39, HQ Levin 18 Dec 39, RTS 29 Feb 40, 2FTS 5 Mar 40, 1FTS 1 Jun 40, Harewood 11 Sep 40, ITW 19 Jan 41, remust as Airman Pilot u/t 20 Jan 41, 3EFTS 2 Mar 41, 2FTS 12 Apr 41, Pilots Badge [wef 2.6.41] & Sgt 5 Jul 41, att RAF & emb for UK 22 Jul 41, 3PRC 2 Sep 41, 11OTU (Wellington) 16 Sep 41, kaa 15 Oct 41. Bassingbourn Cum Kneesworth Cemetery - CC.7, Cambs., England. Son of John Charles & Louisa Margaret McGill-Nutt (née Donnelly), Ngaio, Wgtn. [phot. TWN 29.10.41]. If you have not already done so, you can request a photocopy of the RNZAF service records of both brothers from Personnel Records, New Zealand Defence Force. See here for details: www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives/Of the 118 that made up Gordon's group of pilots destined for service with the RAF and who embarked at Auckland on the Dominion Monarch on 22 July 1941, only 52 survived, 9 of whom became PoW. They disembarked at Liverpool. Grantham was one of 79 ground staff who sailed from Wellington on the Tasman for Singapore on 11 September 1941, arriving there on 10 October. Errol |
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Post by nuuumannn on Apr 9, 2012 14:37:14 GMT 12
Have just read this thread; interesting information. On the Albacores at Singapore, here's a plausible explanation. The Repulse and Prince of Wales was only part of the task force sent to Singapore, the missing ship was HMS Indomitable, newly commissioned and sent to Singapore via the Caribbean, where, on entry to the harbour at Kingston Jamaica, she struck the Palisadoes Reef at the harbour bar, which rendered her inoperative; she was sent to the USA for repairs, so missed the sinking of the two ships by the Japanese. There were two Albacore squadrons aboard the Indom, No.s 827 and 831 and it's likely (although I don't know this for certain) that the aircraft at Singapore were there for the ship to pick up. The only RAF unit to operate the Albacore was 119 Sqn.
This wasn't the last time that Indomitable escaped a certain fate; the ship was sent to Ceylon after her repairs and in early April 1942 was sent out on patrol to intercept a Japanese carrier group led by Adm Chuichi Nagumo and comprising five carriers, four fast battleships, cruisers and destroyers. Her torpedo bombers were readied, but the ship was not sent after the Japanese. She missed the bombing of Colombo on the 5th April by Japanese carrier aircraft. On that day the cruisers Cornwall and Dorsetshire were sunk.
A few days later the carrier Hermes and destroyer Vampire were also sunk by Nagumo's aircraft. I read an account by a crewmember of the Indomitable once and the guy couldn't understand why they didn't intercept the Japanese, although it turned out that the Japanese task force was far superior in numerical size than the British ships in the region, which also included the battleship Warspite and carrier Formidable. According to this guy's account, Adm Somerville with held the British carrier because he wanted to prevent the inevitable.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 9, 2012 14:40:50 GMT 12
Ron Reid in Tauranga flew one of the Singapore Albacores in action. He said they were FAA and had been left there. The FAA had units based there at some stage but had scarpered by the time these aircraft were taken over by No. 36 Squadron RAF. Ron flew one in an attack on a destroyer off the Dutch East Indies after the remnants of his squadron had flown there in the remaining Vildes and Albes.
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Post by nuuumannn on Apr 9, 2012 15:14:27 GMT 12
That's interesting Dave, Sir John Somerville, commander of the Eastern Fleet, comprising Indom, Formidable and Warspite had Singapore as his base for awhile, but left once the situation became untenable, although at that time his ships were elsewhere, both Formidable and Warspite had undergone repairs in the USA after bomb damage in the Mediterranean and were sent to the Eastern Fleet in February and March '42.
At the time of the Japanese attack, the FAA didn't have an official base at Singapore, although Sembawang was also HMS Nabrock/Simbang from late 1945. There were no FAA units - squadrons at least, permanently based at Singapore at the time of the Japanese attack. It's highly likely that the aircraft were there to be picked up by the carriers operating in the Eastern Fleet, if not specifically HMS Indom.
Not the most enviable position flying an Albacore against the Japanese attacking Singapore! Brave man.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 9, 2012 15:27:09 GMT 12
I think you might be right that the Albecores were held there as reserve. Ron said they had been abandoned by the FAA - there were no personnel around so the RAF practically nicked them as they had lost a number of their own planes.
When their position in DEI became untenable they formed a plan. The squadron had two serviceable Albecores left (I think he said they'd gotten six aircrfat of both types to DEI). The men drew lots to get aboard, and those who won were to pile in like sardines. The planes would fly west as far as they could till they saw an Allied ship and would ditch next to it and hope to get picked up and abaord for India.
The lots were drawn and Ron got a 'seat' on this last flight out. But an officer came to him and said he had important info to pass on to High Command and also a wife in India and begged him for the place. Ron gave in and let him have it. The two Albecores set off. One was shot down en route but the aeroplane that he was meant to be in carried out the plan, it found a ship, came alongside and ditched. It flipped I think he said and all aboard but one or two were killed, including the officer who'd taken his place. He found all this out later. When the Albes had left, the remaining airmen sat down on the grass, burned their logbook and awaited captivity. He spent more than three years building a railway for the sons of the Rising Sun. An amazing man and a real hero in my opinion. He's 95 now.
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Post by nuuumannn on Apr 9, 2012 16:39:00 GMT 12
What an amazing story, Dave. Not surprised he's a personal hero of yours at all. Anyone who had to live through those terrible times gets my hat off to them.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 9, 2012 22:35:04 GMT 12
And for those three plus years of building the railway, he was one of the two lead strikers, who had the bulk of the work by being up the front, putting in the front of the line. This perhaps saved him as they were given a little more ration than others, and I'm sure he said the two lead strikers got to work one day on, one off as even the Japs recognised it was a physically demanding job. When the war finished, the 300 or so miles of line they had literally slaved over building was all ripped up, and no-one benefitted from it at all. They had only just finished it and were ready to open it when the atom bomb dropped. Kind of disappointing that the many villages etc didn't benefit from it, but apparently the Japs had stolen all the tracks from elsewhere and the real owners wanted it all back. This was not the famous Thai line that several films have been made about, it's an unknown one!
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