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Post by baz62 on Feb 27, 2011 10:33:39 GMT 12
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Post by vs on Feb 27, 2011 12:10:54 GMT 12
Br great to see one in NZ. There seem to be a lot of these being pulled out of lakes in the US.....be good to see one at the RNZAF museum
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Post by ZacYates on Feb 27, 2011 19:35:43 GMT 12
Would be great to see a complete one on display in NZ, that's for sure.
I had no idea about this one, what wonderful news! It will be interesting to see it when restoration is complete.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 27, 2011 20:27:51 GMT 12
Baz, I think there is some confusion here.
NZ5021 was an SBD-4, it was loaned by MAG-14 at Seagrove and after service with No's 25 and 26 Squadrons it went into storage at Hobsonville. It was bought by scrap dealer Jack Edwards post-war and some parts survived to go to the USA. It was not operated in the Pacific by the RNZAF.
You do realise there is a flyable ex-RNZAF SBD-5 in the USA?
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Post by angelsonefive on Feb 27, 2011 20:41:10 GMT 12
If the NZ serial no. NZ5021 is correct then this is SBD-4 constructor's no. 2468, USN Bureau No. 41-0508.
Sold to J.Edwards on 1 March, 1948.
Stored in NZ for some years it seems before being exported.
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Post by baz62 on Feb 28, 2011 5:51:25 GMT 12
You do realise there is a flyable ex-RNZAF SBD-5 in the USA? Yes I mentioned it in my post ;D Perhaps the link is correct and it is one of the Lake Michigan recoveries? You said in your post: "after service with No's 25 and 26 Squadrons" Was this in New Zealand Dave? |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 28, 2011 9:18:19 GMT 12
Yes, at RNZAF Station Seagrove. No. 26 Squadron was only ever posted to Seagrove while training on Dauntless, and only for a matter of a few weeks.
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Post by angelsonefive on Feb 28, 2011 10:26:31 GMT 12
www.thescale.info/news/publish/Dauntless-RNZAF-2.shtmlNZ5021 was one of 27 ( NZ5019 to 5045) -4s taken over from the USMC by 25 Sqdn on, or shortly after, the arrival of the flying personnel by air ( Lodestar and C-47 ) at Pallikulo, Espiritu Santo, on 30th January 1944. These -4s were described as " well worn " and were replaced about a month later by brand new -5s. The -4s were presumably brought to NZ at some stage to be used in the training of 26 Sqdn.
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Post by ZacYates on Feb 28, 2011 11:48:24 GMT 12
So, whatsthe issue under dispute here?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 28, 2011 12:02:37 GMT 12
There is so much conflicting info out there on these Dauntlesses it's not funny.
Zac, the issue is it's all confused. One site says the aircraft was raised from Lake Michigan, another says it never saw Pacific service and was at Seagrove but as angelsonefive rightly points out it was actually handed to the RNZAF at Buttons. And whilst most sources say it was sold to scrap dealer Jack Edwards postwar, survived and went to the USA from there, Baz alleges it was recovered from the Pacific.
Clear as mud. Is the aircraft at Pima actually an RNZAF one or one out of the lake?
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Post by pjw4118 on Feb 28, 2011 12:09:25 GMT 12
In Joe Cupidos book CHINO he shows Planes of Fame SBD 5 Ex RNZAF as " saw actual combat time " and lists it as Bu 28536.
The book was given to me at David Talichets Proud Bird restaurant which is sited on the threshold of a LAX runway.Lots of aircraft and replicas around the building and they provide ATC headphones at your table. The ultimate spotters heaven. The foods good too.
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Post by angelsonefive on Feb 28, 2011 17:06:18 GMT 12
We cannot rule out that an ex-RNZAF SBD wound up on the bottom the Great Lakes as the result of an accident on one of the paddle-wheel training carriers.
Of the -4s used by No.25 Sqdn in their final training nine aircraft seem to have come to NZ.
The rest, with the exception of NZ5037, were returned to the USMC in late Feb. or early March '44 at Santo.
The surviving -5s were returned to the USMC at Russell Island on the 20th of May '44, on completion of the Squadron's tour of duty.
Given the phasing out of the SBD from front line service and the type's suitability as an advanced trainer I suspect that a lot of the former RNZAF machines finished up with the Carrier Qualification Units.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Feb 28, 2011 20:33:56 GMT 12
Pity that the RNZAF Museum took NZ5037 out of public display quite some time ago. I thought that it looked really poignant when they displayed it 'as found' in the jungle setting. Really bought home to visitors the risks that wartime aircrew ran.   |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 28, 2011 20:51:11 GMT 12
Thanks for those photos Peter, I saw that crashed Dauntless only once, in the early 1990's when it was stored at Weedons. So I never got to see it on display, but from the photos I have to agree it is a powerful exhibit. Were the trees and shrubs all fake or real? They look very real.
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Post by corsair on Jul 5, 2013 20:24:51 GMT 12
Hi folks
Just read today in the August issue of Aeroplane, that the Castle Air Museum in Atwater,California.USA have obtained a SBD-4 NZ5021
The article goes on to say that Ross Jowitt of Auckland had recovered this from a Pacific Island in the 1990's
Anyone know more about this or have any pics ?
The photo shows a pretty much complete aircraft without wings and a couple of skins missing
Just had a look at NZDF-Serials for its wartime history
Thanks
corsair
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Post by baz62 on Jul 6, 2013 15:47:15 GMT 12
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Post by camtech on Jul 11, 2013 16:03:48 GMT 12
MMMM - some monkey business here. NZ5021 was bought on charge at Seagrove, and SBD's were not ferried up to the pacific theatre so we are led to believe. I note that PIMA state "Serial Unknown", so my wild guess is either Ross found it sitting in someone's shed or there has been an error in identifying the specific airframe - more likely the second. I would love to be proven wrong, however.
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Post by ZacYates on Aug 28, 2015 16:14:26 GMT 12
Joe Baugher's site has this to say: 10508 (MSN 2468) Loaned to RNZAF as NZ5021 from Marine Air Group 14 with temporary serial; transferred to NZ ownership late 1943. Brought on charge 14Nov43. Stored by Mar44, SOC Mar48. Undergoing restoration at Pima.
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Post by davidd on Sept 7, 2015 0:23:38 GMT 12
I have a record that just one of the RNZAF's old SBDs in NZ was shipped back overseas in 1944, although the reason is obscure as the US Navy certainly did not want them back! However it was NOT NZ5021!
David D
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chrisr
Squadron Leader
Posts: 102
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Post by chrisr on Oct 31, 2023 19:45:30 GMT 12
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